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U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

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131–140 of 331 posts

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#131

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

> The worst thing a corporation is likely to do (other than giving your data to governments)

There, you said it. If we want to keep data out of the hands of wrong governments, we better keep it out of the hands of corporations.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#132

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

That’s not the worst thing a corp can do. The worst things a corp can do is sell your private data to someone else, monopolize a critical function and squeeze you dry, or block you from a monopolized utility that is critical to modern society.

The focus need to be on both

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#133
post #88
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

market cap is not comparable to GDP. GDP is comparable to value added or profit.

Apple doesn’t need the UK business, but many people will get upset if their iPhone stops working. That’s pretty big leverage.

> their iPhone stops working

Reminds of when UK regulator blocked Microsoft from buying Activision.

It was suggested by some that Microsoft has lots of power of UK and can threaten to pull out of UK and disable every single Windows PC and server in UK and destroy data belonging to UK businesses held in Azure, etc.

Shame it didn't happen, would have loved the reaction from Macron/French/EU given their hatred of US big tech.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#134

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

I agree with your point that government overreach is more serious.

Which is why I want to emphasize that various government police (like FBI) notoriously buy data that they would need a warrant for otherwise.

I’m aware that you’re saying it, but I think you’re underestimating the extent to which preventing spying from the corps == preventing spying from the govt.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#135

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

> The worst thing a corporation is likely to do (other than giving your data to governments) is to sell you something. That's all they want. They collect data so they can make money off you. That's not so scary to me. Governments want to put you in jail (or freeze your bank account, etc) if you get out of line.

It depends what government and what corporations. If it's a healthy functionally representative government then it's rules and laws can be to a certain extent controlled by the public. It may be harder to influence corporations. If a bank wants to close your account, or Visa stops accepting your payments or airlines don't let you fly, you can't complain, they'll just "well tough luck, it's our bank, our airplanes, our payment system, go create your own if you disagree". So I agree with you that this should be a worrying thing for the U.K. citizens, they should ask their government why the heck does it want all that data and maybe it should stop.

> Yes, corporations and the government are often in cahoots here - but even then we should be talking about how wrong it is for governments to be buying/taking/demanding data from corporations - keeping the focus squarely on the government.

Very much in cahoots. They hide behind each others backs, too. "(Apple): Sorry, government made us do it, our hands are tied". "(Govt): Sorry, _we_ are not spying on you. We just bought some data from Google or Apple".

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#136
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the BBC report on the matter: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20g288yldko It applies to content stored using ADP, Apple's E2EE tech. A backdoor into that would mean applying a backdoor into iOS on the phone itself, which is a much larger attack surface than anything centralised. All of which highlights the clownish nature of these regulations. They are so easy for bad actors to circumvent (eg using their…

This is a government that believes in thought crimes. They will likely arrest people for having illegal memes on their phones or for texting messages to friends of which the government does not approve. If there was prequal to 1984, it would look something like this.

It's not that bad. I think the demanding a backdoor from Apple is over the top / stupid. But I haven't heard mention of thought crimes yet (brit here).

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#137

As a brit I would find it amusing if Apple, Google, Meta and Microsoft jointly announced that privacy is a hill to die on, and they'd rather collectively withdraw their businesses from the UK than accede to demands like this. My government would cave within the hour.

Probably Apple will refuse to comply then the UK govt will threaten fines and then nothing much will happen.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#138

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

[deleted]

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#139
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t like the UK governments stance on cyber security / counter-terrorism / et al either. In fact, as a UK citizen I’ve actively campaigned against a great many of their policies. However this “thought police” and “arrested for posting memes” comment that often gets pointed on here is itself a nonsense meme. What actually happened was people were arrested for instigating riots. This is no different to what…

You are focusing on one set of incidents. There are lot of others not connected to any violence at all. People arrested for standing still because of what they admitted thinking and their motive for doing so. Police investigations of 'non-crime incidents'. Hate speech laws that can be very widely interpreted. Increasingly restrictive laws on public protests.

Just link to a report of an incident that you think proves your point. It’s impossible to have a sensible discussion about this issue when comments are so vague.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#140
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a huge story with 1600 points three days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42981756 We don't need new stories daily. And stories about encryption back doors are as much technological as political.

The story[0] I'm referring to is about the Technology Transformation Services, which I think is also apt. Also, I would argue that the actions of government are more political than technological or, actually, that making such a distinction is naive. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43037426

There are at least 60 recent DOGE stories on HN with comments on. I guess people get a bit DOGEd out.

It's probably part of the Trump/Musk strategy. 'Flood the zone' with so many things people can't follow it.

(on zone flooding https://youtu.be/iTSgL_R1CC4)

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