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U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#181

Post by sneak »

nickburns wrote: post #161
sneak wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple gives data to the United States government on over 70,000 user accounts per year without a warrant. Anything Apple knows, the FBI can know, without probable cause.

Not doubting this whatsoever, but what are you citing here?

Apple’s own transparency report. Look at the FISA (FAA702, aka Prism) section.

Per the Snowden slides, this (FAA702 collection) is the #1 most used collection method by US spies.

They can basically read approximately every camera roll and iMessage in the country with a few clicks.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#182

Post by doublerabbit »

hnlmorg wrote: post #155
impossiblefork wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been arrested for perfectly legal anti-royalist propaganda, and threatened with arrest for such things as protesting by holding a blank sheet of paper, so I don't agree.

Citation needed

> In London, a barrister who held up a blank piece of paper in Parliament Square was asked for his details by Metropolitan Police officers, and told that he would be arrested under the Public Order Act if he wrote "Not My King" on the paper.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blank_paper_protest

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#183

Post by foldr »

inejge wrote: post #174
hnlmorg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed

Several examples, including blank piece of paper: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62883713

Nothing actually happened to the guy with the blank sheet of paper (or at least, if it did, that’s not reported in the article).

Certainly you can find examples of the British police overpolicing protests, and that’s something that people rightly get angry about. It’s just that there’s a huge distance between that kind of thing (which happens pretty much everywhere from time to time - do US police forces have an exemplary record of policing protests?) and the kind of wild claims you can see in this discussion that the UK has become an Orwellian police state.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#184

Post by graeme »

alt227 wrote: post #124
graeme wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does not require Apple to make a backdoor to its encryption.

Apple has a history of giving the US government whatever user data they want, lying about it, then when it leaks publicly they are able to say 'Well we couldnt tell you because it would have been breaking the law, sorry about that'. Have an example, of when it leaked that apple was secretly syphoning off all push notifications to the US government: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surve...

Fundamentally not the same thing. Notifications aren't encrypted. Apple has made no claim that they're secret from the govt.

Apple has very loudly and prominently and specifically stated that their encrypted is ecrypted and not even available to apple. They list which portions of icloud this applies to and not.

Huge different between an omission and a large, positive lie.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#185

Post by jasonjayr »

scarface_74 wrote: post #171
impossiblefork wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations can steal your work, etc. and thereby cause enormous problems that do not fit governments. For me I think they're a much greater danger than at least my government. My government has no reason to care about what's on my computer. A company however, has an incentive to use every scrap.

Wait until you speak out against your government or try to organize a protest. More realistically, if you are a women trying to get an abortion in Texas and message someone to help you leave the state to get one see how much more you should be worried. https://www.texastribune.org/2024/02/09/texas-abortion-trans... The government has guns and policemen that can take away your freedom, your property without a trial (c…

Google can kill your digital identity for completely arbitrary, unknowable reasons. Especially if you are all-in on their system, as many, many people are.

How many people have ran to social media begging for help because every avenue offered for appeals are simply automatically rejected?

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#186

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #128

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

>My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much.

The majority of people saying this just don't want ads at all in my opinion, since usually the argument comes up on the topic of targeted ads.

When you're right, the only thing you are to google is a number, likely some uuid in a db. To them all other identifying info is just metadata to shove into an algorithm.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#187

Post by [deleted] »

foldr wrote: post #139
graemep wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are focusing on one set of incidents. There are lot of others not connected to any violence at all. People arrested for standing still because of what they admitted thinking and their motive for doing so. Police investigations of 'non-crime incidents'. Hate speech laws that can be very widely interpreted. Increasingly restrictive laws on public protests.

Just link to a report of an incident that you think proves your point. It’s impossible to have a sensible discussion about this issue when comments are so vague.

[deleted]

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#188

Post by hnlmorg »

inejge wrote: post #174
hnlmorg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed

Several examples, including blank piece of paper: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62883713

That’s not really the same as what’s being discussed though it’s still troubling.

Thankfully common sense prevailed and those people weren’t convicted. meanwhile in other “less Orwellian” counties people are getting charged for similar actions:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/protester-int...

Where’s your freedom of speech there?

I’m not saying I agree with Met. But I also don’t agree it proves the UK are charging people for posting internet memes. Which was the original claim.

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#189

Post by ta1243 »

organsnyder wrote: post #163
ta1243 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can hold my government accountable via the polling booth I have no control over Apple or Amazon or Alphabet. I can petition the government through the court system if it tries to put me in jail, the government functions with a massive series of checks and balances. I can't petition google, they are an unelected uncontrollable unaccountable entity that not even the government has power over

> I can hold my government accountable via the polling booth Yes, but elected officials have used private information to disenfranchise groups of people before. Europe's right to privacy is in part a reaction to abuses that occurred in Nazi Germany.

Private information gathered, processed and stored by private companies

There are large numbers of laws about the data that my government can gather, hold and use on me. No they aren't perfect.

There are pretty much zero laws about what Elon or Zuck can gather, hold, and use

I'm far more worried about the second set of data

Re: U.K. demand for a back door to Apple data threatens Americans, lawmakers say

#190

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #159
Nifty3929 wrote: post #128

I keep saying this, and nobody believes me, but I'm just going to keep trying: These things happen because so often we focus the privacy conversation on corporations, which is exactly where the governments want it to be. My controversial but strong opinion is that privacy from corporations matters very little, but privacy from governments matters very much. We need to stop allowing the conversation to get distracted…

> we focus the privacy conversation on corporations Focus on government, cool. Is the government tracking me with cookies, offering cloud services, tracking me with ads, and whatnot? Sorry, but we should talk about privacy at the source of where we are losing it. In fact, it might even be easier to make the case that corporations want our focus to be on privacy at the state level and not their brand.

>Is the government tracking me with cookies, offering cloud services, tracking me with ads, and whatnot?

The ops point is that the 'risk' of the corporation having that data is that the government could get it.

Otherwise the damage to you is what, an embarrassing ad if your sharing your screen? How does an ad on reddit having context of what you googled an hour ago actually hurt you?

Yes it's 'privacy' but there's no human involved here. The companies involve don't actually care what you're viewing (unless again, they're required to report it to the government).

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