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OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

ft.com

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Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#361

Post by plantwallshoe »

glenstein wrote: post #220

All the top level comments are basking in the irony of it, which is fair enough. But I think this changes the Deepseek narrative a bit. If they just benefited from repurposing OpenAI data, that's different than having achieved an engineering breakthrough, which may suggest OpenAI's results were hard earned after all.

Yeah what happens when we remove all financial incentive to fund groundbreaking science?

It’s the same problem with pharmaceuticals and generics. It’s great when the price of drugs is low, but without perverse financial incentives no company is going to burn billions of dollars in a risky search for new medicines.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#364

Post by tasuki »

glenstein wrote: post #220

All the top level comments are basking in the irony of it, which is fair enough. But I think this changes the Deepseek narrative a bit. If they just benefited from repurposing OpenAI data, that's different than having achieved an engineering breakthrough, which may suggest OpenAI's results were hard earned after all.

I understand they just used the API to talk to the OpenAI models. That... seems pretty innocent? Probably they even paid for it? OpenAI is selling API access, someone decided to buy it. Good for OpenAI!

I understand ToS violations can lead to a ban. OpenAI is free to ban DeepSeek from using their APIs.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#365

Post by amelius »

semking wrote: post #21

This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...

It looks like they want to spin this as "DeepSeek copied OpenAI". The general public/media might actually believe this is what happened.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#366

Post by [deleted] »

orlp wrote: post #224
layer8 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI is saying that their service was used in violation of their TOS, which is a bit different than just copying data. To be clear I’m not on OpenAI’s side, but it looks to me that the legal situation isn’t exactly analogous.

If using data violating some ToS taints the model trained on that data, then all of OpenAI's models are tainted by the millions of ToS'es they broke.

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#367

Post by t43562 »

Keyframe wrote: post #114
jasoneckert wrote: post #20

What I find the most comical about this is that the whole situation could be loosely summarized as "OpenAI is losing its job to AI."

also, China doing in IP what it's better at and way more experienced than USA - stealing.

Who says America is less good at it? Hasn't the US nicked a lot of other people's ideas at some point or other?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#368

Post by the_duke »

glenstein wrote: post #220

All the top level comments are basking in the irony of it, which is fair enough. But I think this changes the Deepseek narrative a bit. If they just benefited from repurposing OpenAI data, that's different than having achieved an engineering breakthrough, which may suggest OpenAI's results were hard earned after all.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

It's been known for a while that competitors used OpenAI to improve their models, that's why they changed the TOS to forbid it.

That doesn't mean the deep seek technical achievements are less valid.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#370

Post by dang »

stackghost wrote: post #101
semking wrote: post #21

This is absolutely hilarious! :) ClosedAI scraped human content without asking and they explained why this was acceptable... but when the outputs of their training corpus is scraped, it is THEIR dataset and this is NOT acceptable! Oh, the irony! :D I shared a few screenshots of DeepSeek answering using ChatGPT's output in yesterday's article! https://semking.com/deepseek-china-ai-model-breakthrough-sec...

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