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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

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Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#361

Post by danpalmer »

cogman10 wrote: post #341
danpalmer wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless the person is a politician or an active danger, no good comes from publishing their name What do you think of the case in my comment, tldr: suspected CSAM offences by a scout group leader. I think it was right that the scout group were notified so he could be suspended... but that is only a very small step from publishing the name, unless you put recipients under NDA and/or criminalise further publicity. I'm…

He was already being held in prison so I see no reason to further publish until a trial or settlement hit. But let's assume he's charged and released on bail or otherwise. In that case, I think it's reasonable for the cops to notify the organizations he's involved with of the pending trial and for a judge to put a restraining order on him. I didn't think anything further needs to happen until he's found guilty or set…

Yeah in this case the guy wasn't being held.

I'd like to be able to differentiate between "permanent record in a newspaper" and "responsible disclosure", but I'm not sure where the line is.

In your case for example, what if a parent went to the media? Or what if one of the hundreds of affected parents started publicly campaigning for the person to be locked up? I think there should be limits, perhaps such as criminalising the sharing of that information unless it's from the police/courts. I don't think it even matters if the secretary at your school kept the person's name a secret, as people will jump to conclusions and start accusing others, and the whole problem here is that unfounded accusations can still cause real harm to people.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#362

Post by qingcharles »

in-pursuit wrote: post #314
danpalmer wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew someone charged with having large amounts of CSAM. He was also named in local media before conviction, although you really had to go looking for it to find it. More importantly perhaps, he was a scout leader and his scout group were informed, I believe by the police, as early as the investigation began - i.e. before being charged, let alone convicted. Given the topic of the investigation, as much as I think pe…

Were they convicted? It seems irresponsible to let someone strongly suspected of harming children to continue to have close contact with children. “Innocent until proven guilty” is a criminal justice concept. It actually doesn’t apply to civil matters.

In the UK, at least, I think if you were charged with this they limit your access to vulnerable groups until the charges have run their course and there is a verdict either way.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#363

Post by qingcharles »

dessimus wrote: post #344
bb88 wrote: post #177

IRL I knew someone who was charged with child sexual abuse. He went to prison awaiting trial, but the prosecution dropped the charges before it got there. He was released and went about his life. Meanwhile his mug shot photo in the local paper was the number one google search result for his name. And then it reached syndication for other news sites as well. Ideally those news paper articles should be updated to say t…

Just because charges were dropped doesn't mean they were innocent. It could mean there wasn't enough reliable witness testimony, physical evidence, or the evidence was tainted in a way that the prosecution did not believe they would get a conviction in a court of law.

This is true, for sure, but there is also the flip side where evidence is wrong, mistaken, planted, framed etc, which comes out during the trial. Where do you balance it?

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#364

Post by qingcharles »

eadmund wrote: post #217
FredPret wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are private prisons in the US that benefit from more prisoners. But there are many more people and organizations there that benefit from fewer prisoners. For most purposes, a country is not a singular thing.

> There are private prisons in the US that benefit from more prisoners. So do public prisons! Their employees — and those employee’s unions — want to make money just as much as anyone. I don’t think that public vs. private is material here.

This is correct.

The main difference I've seen, though, is that private prisons will sell you a lot more stuff for your cell. They generally take a more measured approach to security risks and allow you to buy steel-stringed guitars and PlayStations because there is enormous profit in those. The public jails and prisons won't allow as much stuff like that as it makes their employees' lives a lot harder from a security perspective.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#365

Post by Klonoar »

icehawk wrote: post #137
caymanjim wrote: post #49

[flagged]

Have you ever tried to find the things you said on a forum when you were a teenager? Every time I do this, most of the stuff I did 20 years ago is outright gone, and it always ends in disappointment-- and I have material info on where and what it should be.

For awhile I could find some of my old bullshit on bash.org, but even that’s gone now.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#366

Post by qingcharles »

markx2 wrote: post #15

https://www.judyrecords.com/ probably has it.

And this is a potential issue, because you might be able to persuade a newspaper to remove an article, you can get your criminal record expunged, but it's very unlikely you can persuade a court to totally seal a record of the case, especially if it has appellate issues.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#368

Post by qingcharles »

FpUser wrote: post #165

This whole criminal record piece of shit is a crime on its own. I believe that records of people who served their time or just have been arrested/carded and then let free must be sealed and not accessible to general employers. Some obvious exceptions can apply but generally people should not be penalized for what they've been penalized already.

Employers just Google candidates now, not even worth paying for a real background check. It's all out there.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#369

Post by qingcharles »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #53

This is a huge disservice to the public. Lots of offenders are repeat offenders, and the public needs to know who they are. Or maybe someone just wants to look up an old news story they remember. More fundamentally, this type of action is just a manipulation of the public and not journalism, which should be a neutral way of sharing information.

I was locked up. I've worked with offenders coming straight out of prison. A majority will return to prison.

Why? Several reasons.

1) When you get out, everything is stacked against you. Despite what you hear, there is almost zero support for those released. You've almost certainly lost all your support networks (family, friends). You have no money, no ID, no bank account, no debit card, no cellphone, no email address, no home, no clothing, no food. You have a criminal record, the newspapers say you're a criminal, the Internet says you're a criminal. It's very, very tough.

2) Your only friends when you get out are other ex-cons. Most people in the system have suffered from drug addictions. Everyone you know will be trying to get you to use again. And if they can get you to use then they can get you to steal to get money to pay them for drugs, so they can pay for their own drugs.

3) Only the first stint in jail really sucks. When you walk back into jail you walk back in as a boss. You know the system, you know the routines, you're probably going back to the same jail, so you know the guards. All your friends are there. When you walk in the door your buddies will give you a starter kit to get you going. You're not scared of anyone or anything. After the first time, not only are you not scared to return, you might be thankful for the rest from the hardships of being released.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#370

Post by defrost »

qingcharles wrote: post #369
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #53

This is a huge disservice to the public. Lots of offenders are repeat offenders, and the public needs to know who they are. Or maybe someone just wants to look up an old news story they remember. More fundamentally, this type of action is just a manipulation of the public and not journalism, which should be a neutral way of sharing information.

I was locked up. I've worked with offenders coming straight out of prison. A majority will return to prison. Why? Several reasons. 1) When you get out, everything is stacked against you. Despite what you hear, there is almost zero support for those released. You've almost certainly lost all your support networks (family, friends). You have no money, no ID, no bank account, no debit card, no cellphone, no email addres…

Various by system - South Africa has a 9 out of 10 recidivism rate, the US 7 out of 10, Finland 3 out of 10. China, reportedly, has just over 1 out of 10 .. although the reason there is they apparently execute serial recidivists.

Finland puts some effort into looking what circumstances land citizens in jail and addressing those and post time served support.

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