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Jimmy Carter has died

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Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#711

Post by foldr »

unitol wrote: post #700
foldr wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re assuming that most women would rather share bathrooms with trans men than with trans women. I suspect that were these mad ideas ever to be fully implemented in practice, we’d find that that was not in fact their revealed preference. The truth is that most of the people currently stirring up a moral panic around gender are barely even aware of the existence of trans men and simply haven’t thought this through p…

It's a reasonable assumption that most women prefer to share female spaces with other women, regardless of how they look, and not with male intruders who have decided to disregard women's boundaries for their own pleasure while falsely identifying themselves as women.

If trans men have to go to women’s bathrooms then that actually makes it easier for cis men to go into women’s bathrooms too (as in general they are indistinguishable with clothes on). So there isn’t even any internal logic to this idea. The only way to have bathrooms segregated by genitals is to have genital inspectors outside bathrooms, which is neither practical nor desirable (not to mention that bottom surgery is a thing).

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#712

Post by aprilthird2021 »

edanm wrote: post #658
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries are not "for" ethnicities, nor should they be in the modern era. Yes, I include Japan, Saudi, etc. in my calculations. But those states' existence did not make a substantial group of people stateless.

The Jews had just suffered a genocide, and were not wanted anywhere. There was literally no where for them to go, except the one place that had a thriving Jewish settlement on it for the past 50 years (and a deep connection from long before). I think the history of Israel/Palestine is complicated, and everyone has some blame for the lack of current day peace, but let's be clear that the majority of Jews who became Is…

I didn't say colonizers. Also Israel's Jewish population is made up majorly of people not tied to Europe / the Holocaust. Those latter are the minority.

Again, a state built around one ethnicity that by its founding requires people of a separate ethnicity who were equally living in the same land to become stateless, that's wrong and should not happen.

Now, the Holocaust is nearing 100 years old, does the raison d'etre of the country even apply anymore and does it justify the current state of things which has not changed since then?

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#713

Post by InsideOutSanta »

unitol wrote: post #689
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your position is that this is about protecting women's spaces and making them feel safe and dignified. Your position is also that somebody like Buck Angel must use the women's bathroom, because he is "in fact still a woman." My assertion is that this is contradictory, because forcing somebody like Buck Angel to use the womens' bathroom will make women and girls feel less safe, not more.

This is about every female-only space, not just bathrooms. Consider prisons, for example. There have been many cases recently of male criminals being transferred to the female prison estate, on the basis of their self-declared so-called "female gender identity", who have then raped and in some cases impregnated women incarcerated with them. It should be obvious that the same risk is not present from other female pris…

"It should be obvious that the same risk is not present from other female prisoners"

This is false. Female inmates are raped by female inmates, and male inmates are raped by male inmates. This is a "rape in prison" problem, not a trans women problem. In fact, rape of biological women by trans women in prison is extremely rare.

And, again, your stated hypothesis is self-contradictory, because it implies that the problem of inmates getting raped is solved by putting trans women in male prisons, which is plainly false. It will likely increase the number of rapes.

"the prospect of laws that penalize males who decide to use female bathrooms is good news"

I remember tiredly accidentally using a women's bathroom after a long flight. I'm not looking forward to being punished for it because of the latest moral panic. I'm sure all of the women who are falsely accused of being men because they don't conform to societal stereotypes of what women look like also feel much safer.

Meanwhile, there are, as far as I can ascertain, currently no cases of trans women assaulting biological women in women's bathrooms. I'm sure cases exist, but they must be exceedingly rare.

There are, however, plenty of cases of trans women being assaulted (and, in some cases, murdered) in men's bathrooms.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#714

Post by aprilthird2021 »

genman wrote: post #665
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Israel has created the need for Palestinian Arabs to have a separate nation by leaving them nationless by defining their nation as belonging to a specific ethnicity. Anyone can tell you Israel cannot have an Arab majority. That's fundamentally missing from your example. There were no stateless Germans living in Czechia

The problem with Germans in Czechia was their hostility toward Czech. This heightened with the Nazi occupation. They also didn't become "nationless" as they got German citizenship. The everlasting Palestinian refugee crisis is especially created by UN by creating the UNRWA and inheritable Palestinian refugee status instead of demanding other Arab states to give them citizenship. It is not a problem created by Israel,…

Amazing how Israel defenders claim Arab states should just be forced to give Palestinians citizenship, yet they justify the existence of Israel by saying "Well, no other country would give them citizenship nor were any safe for them, so they needed their own". That logic applies to the Palestinians right now, but you are too blind to ever put yourself in their shoes.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#715

Post by FrustratedMonky »

GuardianCaveman wrote: post #646
tgma wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of humanity? Propaganda much? No, thank you. At very least he destroyed Iran's government and was the American architect of the Islamic Republic in Iran[1], which has a direct causal relationship to many disasters within and outside the country and led to October 7. But sure he put solar panels on the White House. Great guy. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe_Conference

I wrote out a snarky response based off what I understood and then I did more research and he had a big impact. This is a better article to link to in my opinion though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter%27s_engagement_wi...

These articles aren't painting the condemning picture I think you are thinking they do.

If someone becomes president, and a foreign government is already falling apart, and you talk about options and what might become the new government, does that automatically make it your fault? The Shah wasn't a saint, and kind of created the situation.

If you want to place blame for Iran, it might need to go further back to Eisenhower and the Coup that put the Shah in power. The US actually overthrew a democratic country, to put the Shaw, a monarch back into power.

From there forward, every president had their hand in kicking Iran. Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon.

They were all involved. Why lay it at Carters feet?

Or go further back. The West, after WW2, purposely split up the Middle East in a way to keep it in Chaos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

"The two diplomats' pencils divided the map of one of the most volatile regions in the world into states that cut through ethnic and religious communities."

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#716

Post by edanm »

bhouston wrote: post #704
edanm wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I wrote is true even if Israel does annex all of Gaza and the West Bank, which is the only territorial claims that some extremist Israelis make. Extremists who unfortunately wield far more influence than they should, given their lack of support among the populace. (And to be clear, I think the entire settlement project is terrible and corrosive to Israel, and should be stopped and rolled back at once.) The…

> I don't think Israel's leader believes in expanding, btw - he only wants one thing, his own political survival. Everything else is secondary. Netanyahu is a hard case. Here is what Aluf Benn wrote in Haaretz recently: "Netanyahu wants to be remembered as the one who created Greater Israel, not just as a political schemer accused of corruption who abandoned 100 hostages in Gaza. That's why he'll try to cement Israel…

> Netanyahu is a hard case. Here is what Aluf Benn wrote in Haaretz recently:

Maybe. Haaretz is on the Israeli left, and extremely critical of Netanyahu. That doesn't necessarily mean this is wrong - but it's like citing Fox's critique of Biden's motivations, or MSNBC's critique of Trump's motivations, as authoritative fact.

Even if what he's writing is true - this is probably a "new" motivation and not some underlying philosophy, IMO (unlike, say, Smotrich). Netanyahu has been in power for many years, and the most common criticism is that he doesn't actually do enough - he straddles the fence, refusing to commit to either (say) destroying Hamas or working with the PA - preferring to do as little as possible and play all angles, to stay in power. In our current situation you see a similar thing play out - he's refused to offer a "day after" plan for Gaza for a long time, and is certainly not publicly agreeing with the extremists who want to resettle Gaza - but also still working with them. Fence sitting, in other words.

That's why I believe he is more likely motivated by "staying in power" without actually having any underlying desire to make "greater Israel".

(Oh and I just now actually looked at the article, and it seems to support what I'm saying - that this is new behavior for Netanyahu, who was always considered risk-averse. I hope the article is wrong and Netanyahu is just fence-sitting as usual, for everyone's sake.)

> Israel has robust population growth. This is a long-term project. Similar to the settlements in the West Bank that stated 50 years ago and may finally get most of the West Bank annexed to Israel in the next four year.

I don't think that will happen, because most Israelis do not want to actually rule a people that hates them in an actual apartheid situation.

I sincerely hope I'm right. Netanyahu is certainly taking steps towards dictatorship, so who knows? Israel's democracy is relatively strong and robust, and I don't think the populace will let democracy fall, but again, who knows?

> I think I was judgement free. You are inferring that it is mark against Israel I am talking about geopolitical realities.

> If Israel's population is growing while both Syria and Lebanon are stagnant or shrinking and they are also failed/fragile states, it will be easy to expand into them and sustain that expansion.

Fair enough, I wasn't sure you were implying something negative. Still, actually expanding into Syria et all is completely outside the bounds of any normal discourse in Israel. I doubt you'd get even 5% of Israelis wanting to expand the borders significantly for growth reasons, only solidify borders for security reasons.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#717

Post by aprilthird2021 »

edanm wrote: post #659
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between pro-peace and pro-Palestine? I've always understood them to largely be different terms in favor of a two-state solution.

Well it depends on what you mean by pro-Palestine. One could similarly ask what's the difference between being pro-Israel and being pro-peace. As some people use the term, it means the dissolution of Israel. As others use it, it means being in favor of a peace agreement between Israel and Palestine for a two state solution. I think if you ask most Israelis (including me), they'll tell you that it's an unfortunate rea…

Pro-Israel, as far as the government is, is inherently an anti-two-state-solution position. How can there be peace with 2-3 million stateless people who have no way to defend themselves against a hostile nation?

You're talking about what Palestinians inherently "want", but that's not really related to peace. Peace exists when nations can deter each other. The USSR and the USA had peace despite each "wanting" to destroy the other because they had MAAD. Without that, imagine the carnage? It might have looked like what we see today in Gaza...

I agree with you, that I wish pro-either-country was a pro-peace position. Ultimately it will have to become one in Israel for the situation to change. No matter what Palestinians want, they don't have the firepower to change the calculus.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#718

Post by InsideOutSanta »

unitol wrote: post #700
foldr wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re assuming that most women would rather share bathrooms with trans men than with trans women. I suspect that were these mad ideas ever to be fully implemented in practice, we’d find that that was not in fact their revealed preference. The truth is that most of the people currently stirring up a moral panic around gender are barely even aware of the existence of trans men and simply haven’t thought this through p…

It's a reasonable assumption that most women prefer to share female spaces with other women, regardless of how they look, and not with male intruders who have decided to disregard women's boundaries for their own pleasure while falsely identifying themselves as women.

"It's a reasonable assumption that most women prefer to share female spaces with other women, regardless of how they look"

This is not a reasonable assumption based on my experience talking to women, and if it was, I don't understand how it would work in reality. Even if biological women preferred sharing the women's bathroom with trans men, rather than trans women, how would biological women know whether they were sharing the bathroom with a trans man or a biological man?

It seems much easier for trans men to pass than for trans women, so allowing trans men into women's bathrooms basically ensures that all men can freely enter them, claiming to be trans men.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#719

Post by InsideOutSanta »

mulmen wrote: post #685
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trans topic is a wedge issue that has absolutely no impact on 99% of people. Many of the things people like to bring up when complaining about "a shift to the left" are fringe ideas even on the left, and are amplified by right-wingers who are trying to paint the left as out of touch with reality. Having said that, age-appropriate sex ed in elementary school (e.g. talking about bodily autonomy and consent) is actu…

> This is also a major reason why Trump got elected: people have so little trust in the current system that they'd rather vote for somebody who promises to break it, than for somebody who promises to improve it. I agree this is what appears to have happened but I still can’t follow the logic. What happens next? Who builds the next system and why should we expect it will be any better?

My impression is that a lot of people are just hoping for everything to go to hell to the point where fundamental changes become inevitable, and they're assuming that these fundamental changes will likely be beneficial to them.

I'm not sure if this is evidence of how bad people think the status quo is, or if it is evidence of how naive most people are.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#720

Post by bdangubic »

data_maan wrote: post #613
bdangubic wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump followers alone is nowhere near enough to win an election in the USA. It was somewhat easy to win this election. you had post-Covid economy coupled with half-senile 80+ year old grandpa who was replaced by a candidate not a soul voted for. however, when you are up for re-election (and midterms as 1/2-way gauge of how the country thinks you are doing) the buck stops with you. there is no “booo, it is not my faul…

While I agree on your point regarding midterm reckoning, I'm afraid people DID vote for Trump, he even won the popular vote - which is mind numbing: Americans actually WANTED to install a proven criminal and rapist as president.

it is extremely short-sited to think in simple terms like this. what you should be asking yourself is WHY this happened - WHY did all these people come out to vote for Trump. We are not talking here about "MAGAs" - there are nearly not enough of them to win the election. every single state in the United States moved to the right in this election... so you should stop and think this through to figure out why would America choose Trump so that it is not all that mind numbing... there is a reason this happened and you should think about that why that is...
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