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VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

cyberinsider.com

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Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#151

Post by flir »

mjevans wrote: post #134
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No device should be allowed to be sold without the ability to function without telemetry or sale of data to third parties. And telemetry and any data sharing should be opt in, as part of configuring the thing the first time. With a one click opt out of all.

Default Opted Out Opt In should NOT be required to enable features. Features should not be rented, and should be delivered as purchased with the car. Shipped but disabled features that take up additional vehicle weight (relative to lacking the feature) should not be allowed. (This phrasing is precise, to allow for silicon and software enhancements which are not a material change to vehicle manufacturing / design.) Se…

Although I'm generally pro coming down hard on dark patterns, I'm uncomfortable with that last example. To me, it's just differentiation. You can have the bare-bones service (digital only) with a higher interest rate, or the deluxe service (paper statements, in-country phone support, etc) with a lower interest rate. That doesn't seem inherently bad to me, it seems like a company offering two different products.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#152

Post by mulmen »

spike021 wrote: post #146
cherryteastain wrote: post #97

We need a way to disable vehicle telemetry. No, a software switch is not enough. We need to be able to physically unplug the cellular modem entirely and have the vehicle work with 100% functionality (barring features which inherently require cellular connectivity like turning the heating on remotely) Car manufacturers' features are mostly useless anyway thanks to Android Auto/Apple CarPlay

I believe my new car has a fuse you can pull to disable the remote telemetry. However, it disables some useful features, like being able to set valet mode from the Toyota app (useful because some dealer service departments will take cars joy riding) and track the car usage. it also tracks tire pressures. sure the tire pressure can easily be checked manually with my Slime gauge but having it on the phone is handy.

Both of those features were available on cars before cellular connectivity.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#153

Post by geor9e »

prmoustache wrote: post #106
__fst__ wrote: post #28

EVs are topping the list of (imho) useless extras in cars. I'm still cherishing my Honda Fit pre-touchscreen edition. I'm going to drive it until it will fall apart. My next car will be an EV but I have yet to find one that still comes with mechanical features (door handles, knobs/buttons), without a whole battery of surveillance/telemetry tech and (crossing fingers) exchangable batteries. Simple electric propulsion…

You can convert an old car to EV. There are comoanies speciliazing in this, mostly to convert classics that needed a ton of maintenance. Expensive yes but might be worth it if you value your privacy.

How is a complete rebuild of a car your go-to solution to an easily accessible cellular modem powered through the fuse box

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#154

Post by RandomBK »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #128
ctippett wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once worked for a firm that had access to credit card transaction data and came across almost this exact scenario. Kindergarten transactions one day, escort payments on another. It was — and still is — creepy. An average Joe like me shouldn't be able to pry into someone's private life like that.

That's just bad opsec. I would have thought rule number one of soliciting was to be cash only. Ignoring of course that the amount of aggregated surveillance makes it impossible to escape monitoring. Credit cards, license plate scanners, phone GPS, airtags, doorbell cameras, "Eye in the Sky" spy planes, etc

"What kind of hooker takes credit cards?"

"A rich one!"

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#155

Post by sudahtigabulan »

ryandrake wrote: post #136
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No device should be allowed to be sold without the ability to function without telemetry or sale of data to third parties. And telemetry and any data sharing should be opt in, as part of configuring the thing the first time. With a one click opt out of all.

Expand this to any product. I should be able to use ANY product fully, without maintaining some kind of communication channel to and/or from the product's manufacturer. When I buy a hammer from Home Depot, I take it home and hammer with it. The manufacturer doesn't know I have it, doesn't know how many nails per month I hammer with it, how many swings it takes on average for me to drive in a nail, how often I use the…

Because they make products that are harder to replace with a better alternative. (they have a moat/lock-in).

Anyone that has built a moat/lock-in will, sooner or later, screw you over.

Hammer manufacturers would too, if they could. But hammers are simple devices.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#156

Post by jlund-molfese »

mhandley wrote: post #104
behnamoh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate touchscreen buttons too and unfortunately all EVs I've seen have adopted that. I wonder if there are EVs with good old fashioned mechanical buttons.

The Polestar 2 is pretty good in this regard. All the most important things are on the steering wheel stalks, steering wheel buttons, and a few buttons for things like demist, play/pause and volume control on the centre console. There's still a lot on the touchscreen, including climate control, but it seems to hit a pretty good balance for me (and I'm not a fan on car touchscreens).

I love my Polestar 2. But there's gotta be a better way to do touchscreen climate controls. I've had mine for 8 months now, and had to google in order to figure out that the car had dual-climate zones—it's really hard to tell from the swipe-up page, so I just assumed it didn't have that feature for a while. Plus, I don't feel comfortable changing the climate settings while driving, because I might hit the wrong touchscreen button when I'm not looking at the screen.

But hey, maybe if I wait around another 5-10 years, there'll be more than 3 mainstream electric sedan options available for the US market and I'll be able to find the perfect car.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#157

Post by NewJazz »

spike021 wrote: post #146
cherryteastain wrote: post #97

We need a way to disable vehicle telemetry. No, a software switch is not enough. We need to be able to physically unplug the cellular modem entirely and have the vehicle work with 100% functionality (barring features which inherently require cellular connectivity like turning the heating on remotely) Car manufacturers' features are mostly useless anyway thanks to Android Auto/Apple CarPlay

I believe my new car has a fuse you can pull to disable the remote telemetry. However, it disables some useful features, like being able to set valet mode from the Toyota app (useful because some dealer service departments will take cars joy riding) and track the car usage. it also tracks tire pressures. sure the tire pressure can easily be checked manually with my Slime gauge but having it on the phone is handy.

You can't see the tire pressure on the dash?

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#158

Post by Dylan16807 »

bdangubic wrote: post #108
tremon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can even keep driving while the whole system is rebooting At least you're still acknowledging the abysmal state of modern cars by including this statement. Why on earth would anyone expect otherwise from a car?

if you are ever in the middle of highway (especially if you are traveling with loved ones) when your EV suddenly reboots you will understand why one does not expect shit to work… the anxiety is unlike most thing one can experience… I think 100% reverse of your comment but talking from a different real experiences. EVs are computers on wheels, expecting them to work during reboot is not unlike expecting vim to work du…

I'm pretty sure they're talking about rebooting the console system, not the entire car.

EVs are not computers, they have computers. The controllers that make it go should stay on during a "sudden reboot". Expecting them to keep working is like expecting my coolant pump to work during a reboot, not vim.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#159

Post by mulmen »

a3w wrote: post #89

Best of from 38th CCC: every three letter secret service of the country seems to be spyied out by this. And a secret VW testing facility in sweden was uncovered. Also, effects mostly EVs, but not only. (If the EV motor was the group usually logged to the opened AWS bucket, I don't understand how there were ICE or possibly hybrid cars involved in the leak.) https://streaming.media.ccc.de/38c3/ had a german language vi…

> Also, effects mostly EVs, but not only. (If the EV motor was the group usually logged to the opened AWS bucket, I don't understand how there were ICE or possibly hybrid cars involved in the leak.)

I can't parse this. Is there a missing word? Mostly implies other possible inputs but the last part of that sentence specifically says this is confusing. Why is it hard to understand how ICE or Hybrid groups also had access to a bucket EVs mostly had access to?

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#160

Post by modeless »

cherryteastain wrote: post #97

We need a way to disable vehicle telemetry. No, a software switch is not enough. We need to be able to physically unplug the cellular modem entirely and have the vehicle work with 100% functionality (barring features which inherently require cellular connectivity like turning the heating on remotely) Car manufacturers' features are mostly useless anyway thanks to Android Auto/Apple CarPlay

In many (all?) cars with cellular modems you can remove the SIM card to have this effect.
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