Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

cyberinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 317 posts

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#141

Post by magicalhippo »

amluto wrote: post #131
magicalhippo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, that's the easy part. The hard part is making it work reliably in the real world.

What, exactly, makes it hard to get this to work reliably in the real world? The app already won’t work without a valid login session. The car is already sending a little blob of data to the mothership containing a location. If the communication to the mothership changes to having the mothership send a list of keys and the car encrypt its blob, that’s basically it. The total increase in communication needed is one ro…

The app and car will have intermittent connection to the internet.

My car for example doesn't have reliable connection when it's parked in the garage, which is where I charge it.

Your solution would add a lot of extra edge cases that needs to be considered.

You have to ensure the updated key is reliably transferred to the mothership in a timely fashion, and subsequently that the key is reliably transferred to the car in a timely fashion.

That's the back-end stuff. There's also the front-end stuff, like will my SO understand why her app isn't showing the car's location but mine is?

Not saying it's impossible, but it adds a lot of complexity beyond simply encrypting the location with multiple keys.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#142

Post by Scoundreller »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #124
throwaway173738 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not have whatever dies replaced? I will probably do that with my crappy small truck from 2006.

After a certain point, parts just aren't made. I drive a 1997 ES300 that needs a new left rear taillight lens. The new part doesn't exist anymore, and I can't find a used part in Canada.

So uhhhh, buy one from USA?

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#143

Post by Loudergood »

behnamoh wrote: post #39
__fst__ wrote: post #28

EVs are topping the list of (imho) useless extras in cars. I'm still cherishing my Honda Fit pre-touchscreen edition. I'm going to drive it until it will fall apart. My next car will be an EV but I have yet to find one that still comes with mechanical features (door handles, knobs/buttons), without a whole battery of surveillance/telemetry tech and (crossing fingers) exchangable batteries. Simple electric propulsion…

I hate touchscreen buttons too and unfortunately all EVs I've seen have adopted that. I wonder if there are EVs with good old fashioned mechanical buttons.

Both my Bolt(RIP) and my Ioniq 5 have mechanical buttons for the most common things(media controls/HVAC)

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#144

Post by cozzyd »

ryandrake wrote: post #136
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No device should be allowed to be sold without the ability to function without telemetry or sale of data to third parties. And telemetry and any data sharing should be opt in, as part of configuring the thing the first time. With a one click opt out of all.

Expand this to any product. I should be able to use ANY product fully, without maintaining some kind of communication channel to and/or from the product's manufacturer. When I buy a hammer from Home Depot, I take it home and hammer with it. The manufacturer doesn't know I have it, doesn't know how many nails per month I hammer with it, how many swings it takes on average for me to drive in a nail, how often I use the…

Just wait....

"Your hammer has reached its monthly nail limit. Please upgrade to the pro plan to unlock an additional 60 nails"

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#145

Post by rrr_oh_man »

cherryteastain wrote: post #97

We need a way to disable vehicle telemetry. No, a software switch is not enough. We need to be able to physically unplug the cellular modem entirely and have the vehicle work with 100% functionality (barring features which inherently require cellular connectivity like turning the heating on remotely) Car manufacturers' features are mostly useless anyway thanks to Android Auto/Apple CarPlay

My solution: Buy an old car...

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#146

Post by spike021 »

cherryteastain wrote: post #97

We need a way to disable vehicle telemetry. No, a software switch is not enough. We need to be able to physically unplug the cellular modem entirely and have the vehicle work with 100% functionality (barring features which inherently require cellular connectivity like turning the heating on remotely) Car manufacturers' features are mostly useless anyway thanks to Android Auto/Apple CarPlay

I believe my new car has a fuse you can pull to disable the remote telemetry. However, it disables some useful features, like being able to set valet mode from the Toyota app (useful because some dealer service departments will take cars joy riding) and track the car usage. it also tracks tire pressures. sure the tire pressure can easily be checked manually with my Slime gauge but having it on the phone is handy.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#147

Post by whimsicalism »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #145
cherryteastain wrote: post #97

We need a way to disable vehicle telemetry. No, a software switch is not enough. We need to be able to physically unplug the cellular modem entirely and have the vehicle work with 100% functionality (barring features which inherently require cellular connectivity like turning the heating on remotely) Car manufacturers' features are mostly useless anyway thanks to Android Auto/Apple CarPlay

My solution: Buy an old car...

modern cars are unfortunately much safer

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#148

Post by IanCal »

mjevans wrote: post #134
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No device should be allowed to be sold without the ability to function without telemetry or sale of data to third parties. And telemetry and any data sharing should be opt in, as part of configuring the thing the first time. With a one click opt out of all.

Default Opted Out Opt In should NOT be required to enable features. Features should not be rented, and should be delivered as purchased with the car. Shipped but disabled features that take up additional vehicle weight (relative to lacking the feature) should not be allowed. (This phrasing is precise, to allow for silicon and software enhancements which are not a material change to vehicle manufacturing / design.) Se…

Devils advocate here

If this made it more expensive, because having cars that are physically different is harder, would you prefer that?

Why can't I simply not care that I don't get something I've not paid for and there's a doodad in the car that's capable of it?

If the alternative is having to buy that feature or pay more for a car that doesn't have it, that sounds like a bad outcome.

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#149

Post by whimsicalism »

prmoustache wrote: post #106
__fst__ wrote: post #28

EVs are topping the list of (imho) useless extras in cars. I'm still cherishing my Honda Fit pre-touchscreen edition. I'm going to drive it until it will fall apart. My next car will be an EV but I have yet to find one that still comes with mechanical features (door handles, knobs/buttons), without a whole battery of surveillance/telemetry tech and (crossing fingers) exchangable batteries. Simple electric propulsion…

You can convert an old car to EV. There are comoanies speciliazing in this, mostly to convert classics that needed a ton of maintenance. Expensive yes but might be worth it if you value your privacy.

only worth it if you really value the environment, your privacy, but not your life

Re: VW breach exposes location of 800k electric vehicles

#150

Post by mulmen »

cherryteastain wrote: post #97

We need a way to disable vehicle telemetry. No, a software switch is not enough. We need to be able to physically unplug the cellular modem entirely and have the vehicle work with 100% functionality (barring features which inherently require cellular connectivity like turning the heating on remotely) Car manufacturers' features are mostly useless anyway thanks to Android Auto/Apple CarPlay

Why would turning on the heating require cell service? If you’re out of key fob range do you really need to pre-heat the car?

The only possible use of cell service is for infotainment and even that’s questionable in a world of ubiquitous cell phones.

Post reply on HN