Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

orkohunter.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 473 posts

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#331

Post by bruce511 »

maksimur wrote: post #250
bruce511 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a root well worth understanding. Once I grasped the concept I found it much less stressful. I've even got into public speaking, which horrified me as a child. I came to realize that I'm really not that important. People aren't watching me. People aren't evaluating or judging me. They forget me when I move on. I'm not profound etc. They don't hang on my every word. All that are things I put on myself.…

I'm not sure about that. Friends and family members do happen to remember something I or someone else said or did even years ago. People DO watch and pay attention, and often judge.

yes, but that's people you know. Not random strangers at some random party. Talking to strangers is "easier" when you realize that what they think about you does not matter.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#332

Post by CoastalCoder »

NegativeK wrote: post #320
maccard wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I’d mention is that just because someone is good at socialising in the outside doesn’t mean that they don’t have their own issues. Demonising people who can colour within the lines in this area when they make a mistake or are pushed out of their comfort zone can be exactly the same for us as it is for you guys to be told “just talk to the person”.

I'll never assume that someone else doesn't have struggles that I don't know about. But when a self-labeled extrovert (or introvert or whatever) begins to tell me to just go do X to help with my introversion, it makes me want to stop talking about the issue to anyone.

I could be wrong, but I think you might be misunderstanding someone's point from above.

They said "you need to work on this, or else ...", but they didn't use the word "just".

I.e., they weren't implying it would be easy. Just that it wouldn't go away on its own, but that working on it would (in their estimation?) help.

Kinda like when my doctor tells me I need to lose weight or else I'll have problems X Y, and Z. She knows it's not easy.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#333

Post by [deleted] »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #307

I am an introvert not because I don’t like socializing with people, but rather because I can’t shake the impression that they don’t like socializing with me (and I have been proven right in this notion). In order to become more likable I’ve had to adopt an extremely perceptive and self critical mental framework to analyze every thing I could be doing wrong to annoy or offend people. It has worked, and people seem to…

[deleted]

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#334

Post by llm_nerd »

zenethian wrote: post #5

This is a terrible article that reads like an AI generated LinkedIn post. Nevermind the fact that the author isn't using the terms introvert and extrovert correctly; the message is quite ableist. Not everyone can achieve this level of communication in a productive manner. Telling people that management will "prefer" one over the other when it's "budget time" is also dead wrong. I've fired more extroverts than introve…

"Nevermind the fact that the author isn't using the terms introvert and extrovert correctly"

Is there a correct use? The most social, outgoing people I know universally declare themselves introverts because they, like every human in history, occasionally likes some alone time to "recharge". It's similar to how everyone has OCD because they like a tidy desk.

Make being an introvert a positive trait somehow and suddenly 100% of people are introverts.

There are sort-of clinical definitions (e.g. "have a limited social bandwidth and need to recharge") but they're so broadly applicable they are worthless.

There are other traits like social phobia or anxiety that often get intermixed with those, but they are very different qualities even if they manifest in a way that might get categorized.

I do consider myself an introvert. At a young age I would see stories where someone broke the rules (in prison, military boot camp, etc) and would be relegated to solitary. They'd get outdoor time, books, often even craft materials, etc, but they were all alone all day long. I could never understand how this was a punishment. It seemed absolutely magical.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#335

Post by 542354234235 »

atwrk wrote: post #287
thayne wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure they are really that related. I would be very, very surprised if most people with social anxiety aren't also introverts.

There are actually many many people who are both socially anxious and extraverted. Really not uncommon. It doesn't look like that because introversion and social anxiety are so often mixed up - just like in this article. Keep in mind those psychological concepts are defined by the inner workings and motivations of people's minds, not by behavior observable from the outside. Introversion: This person gets energy from…

The most frustrating thing about this article and most of the comments is the refusal to separate introversion/extroversion from social anxiety. If you are an introvert, you will benefit from managing the amount of social interactions and to try to eliminate low value interactions so you can spend your limited energy on important ones, either in the workplace or with friends. If you have social anxiety, then you should probably talk to a therapist to try to reduce and manage your anxiety.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#336

Post by swat535 »

cdrini wrote: post #226
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike being fit, being social doesn't have any inherent benefit in terms of health. It's merely a preference.

That's not quite true, social isolation has been shown to be correlated with an increased risk of dementia and cognitive impairment in older age. And I reckon there are other studies that show correlations with other health outcomes.

I suppose it depends on the person but the older I get, the less patience I have for people and the more I rather focus on myself, hobbies and quiet time. I don’t have time for fake social gatherings or pretending like parent does.

If I meet someone genuine I will engage with them, otherwise I much rather to keep to my own devices..

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#337

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

maksimur wrote: post #250
bruce511 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a root well worth understanding. Once I grasped the concept I found it much less stressful. I've even got into public speaking, which horrified me as a child. I came to realize that I'm really not that important. People aren't watching me. People aren't evaluating or judging me. They forget me when I move on. I'm not profound etc. They don't hang on my every word. All that are things I put on myself.…

I'm not sure about that. Friends and family members do happen to remember something I or someone else said or did even years ago. People DO watch and pay attention, and often judge.

Which reminds me that verbal and emotional abuse from parents and close family can have a severe impact reaching far into adult-hood. You can't help having internalized behaviors build around trying to avoid abuse. You can rationally understand that maybe most people aren't judging you like that, but you're also keenly aware that the world is filled with enough who are and with strangers you can never tell who's who.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#338

Post by andyjohnson0 »

ethbr1 wrote: post #173
kstrauser wrote: post #86

I regularly say yes to work dinners and such that I don’t personally want to attend. That sort of thing is far outside my comfort zone, and that’s exactly why I do it. It’s good exercise to pretend to be outgoing and chatty for an evening. Like any other skill, you get better at it with practice! And the author here is so right: almost everyone else at these things besides the salespeople are probably also introverts…

> Like any other skill, you get better at it with practice! Johnny Carson was an introvert. [0] If he could be a professional-calibre conversationalist, then I refuse to believe most introverted people can't at least reach the passable cocktail party level. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Carson#Personal_life

Introversion is not the same as shyness.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#339

Post by ethbr1 »

compiler-guy wrote: post #189
ethbr1 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like any other skill, you get better at it with practice! Johnny Carson was an introvert. [0] If he could be a professional-calibre conversationalist, then I refuse to believe most introverted people can't at least reach the passable cocktail party level. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Carson#Personal_life

No one is claiming that it can’t be done. Just that introverts don’t like to do it and generally don’t find it worth it.

I did and do, and I have several introvert friends who also found it an incredibly useful and fulfilling life skill.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#340

Post by frognumber »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #329
atleastoptimal wrote: post #307

I am an introvert not because I don’t like socializing with people, but rather because I can’t shake the impression that they don’t like socializing with me (and I have been proven right in this notion). In order to become more likable I’ve had to adopt an extremely perceptive and self critical mental framework to analyze every thing I could be doing wrong to annoy or offend people. It has worked, and people seem to…

You might be a bit autistic, common enough in the software world. Lookup something called “autistic masking”. Source: All the autistic people in my life. I really like autistic people! Find your people and you won’t have to pretend around them.

Right now, we increasingly like to stick labels on things, and I'm not sure it's helpful.

Autism is a disorder, diagnosed in DSM V. Very few people in your life are likely to be autistic. As with many such things, it's a spectrum. Unless those cross a pathological threshold, it's not autism. Few SWEs are over that threshold.

We used to call people "nerdy," "quirky," or other things (and it was okay to be that). That's in the natural spread of human personalities. If you're 5% of the way towards dyslexia, autism, obsessive-compulsive disorder, or whatever else, it's in the range of human personalities, not disorders.

It's helpful to understand how different people work. Most SWEs and introverts share some characteristics with people with autism, and reading about autism can help understand oneself by interpolation. However, the label is not fair either people with actual autism, or to people without autism who believe they have it.

Footnote: My experience is that extrovert versus introvert is mostly a function of whether you're invigorated by interacting with people or tired by it, and especially by people you don't know well. Yes, social skills are helpful, a skill one can develop, and important to one's career, but so are math or medicine. A good strategy for an introvert is to partner with an extrovert.

Post reply on HN