Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 500 posts

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#351

Post by Shorel »

narrator wrote: post #66
nappy-doo wrote: post #4

I worked at FB for almost 2 years. (I left as soon as I could, I knew it wasn't a good fit for me.) I had an Uber from the campus one day, and my driver, a twenty-something girl, was asking how to become a moderator. I told her, "no amount of money would be enough for me to do that job. Don't do it." I don't know if she eventually got the job, but I hope she didn't.

Yes, these jobs are horrible. However, I do know from accidently encountering bad stuff on the internet that you want to be as far away from a modern battlefield as possible. It's just kind of ridiculous how people think war is like Call of Duty. One minute you're sitting in a trench, the next you're a pile of undifferentiated blood and guts. Same goes for car accidents and stuff. People really underestimate how frag…

> Becoming aware of this is super damaging to our concept of normal life.

Not being aware of this is also a cause of traffic accidents. People should be more careful driving.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#352

Post by kelseyfrog »

renewiltord wrote: post #264
coryrc wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a problem when you don't verify the identity of your users and hold them responsible for illegal things. If Facebook verified you were John D SSN 123-45-6789 they could report you for uploading CSAM and otherwise permanently block you from using the site if uploading objectionable material; meaning only exposure to horrific things is only necessary once per banned user. I would expect that to be orders of magnit…

[flagged]

Unsurprising lack of response to this statement. It's 100% true, and any cost-benefit calculation of privacy should account for it.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#353

Post by wongarsu »

_qua wrote: post #329
wongarsu wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's different in the US where ambulances cost money, but here in Germany the typical paramedic will see a wide variety of cases, with the vast majority of patients surviving the encounter. Giving your paramedic a day off after witnessing a death wouldn't break the bank. In the ICU or emergency room it would be a different story.

Ambulances cost money everywhere, it's just a matter of who is paying. Do we think paramedics in Germany are more susceptible to PTSD when patients die than ICU or ER staff, or paramedics anywhere?

> Ambulances cost money everywhere

Not in the sense that matters here: the caller doesn't pay (unless the call is frivolous), leading to more calls that are preemptive, overly cautious or for non-live-threatening cases. That behind the scenes people and equipment are paid for and a whole structure to do that exists isn't really relevant here

> Do we think paramedics in Germany are more susceptible to PTSD

No, we think that there are far more paramedics than ICU or ER staff, and helping them in small ways is pretty easy. For ICU and ER staff you would obviously need other measures, like staffing those places with people less likely to get PTSD or giving them regular counseling by a staff therapist (I don't know how this is actually handled, just that the problem is very different than the issue of paramedics)

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#354

Post by kelseyfrog »

rnewme wrote: post #78
jkestner wrote: post #43

Borrowing the thought from Ed Zitron, but when you think about it, most of us are exposing ourselves to low-grade trauma when we step onto the internet now.

That's the risk of being in a society in general, it's just that we interact with people outside way less now. If one doesn't like it, they can always be a hermit.

Is there any way to look at this that doesn't resort to black or white thinking? That's a rather extreme view in itself that could use some nuance and moderation.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#355

Post by apitman »

fluoridation wrote: post #330
apitman wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people chose to take the jobs, so presumably they thought it was fair compensation compared to alternatives. Unless there's evidence they were coerced in some way? Note that I'm equating all jobs here. No amount of compensation makes it worth seeing horrible things. They are separate variables.

No amount ? So you wouldn't accept a job to moderate Facebook for a million dollars a day? If you would, then surely you would also do it for a lower number. There is an equilibrium point.

> So you wouldn't accept a job to moderate Facebook for a million dollars a day?

I would hope not.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#356

Post by s1artibartfast »

Eisenstein wrote: post #155
AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people who spend time working with livestock on a farm describe a certain acceptance and understanding of death that most modern people have lost.

[flagged]

I don't have any data, but my anecdotal experience is a yes to those questions.

>Are there other ways we can get a sense of how a more healthy acceptance of mortality would manifest?

In concept, yes, I think home family death can also have a similar impact. It is not very common in the US, but 50 years ago, elders would typically die at home with family. There are cultures today, even materially advanced ones, where people spend time with the freshly dead body of loved ones instead of running from it and compartmentalizing it.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#357

Post by fluoridation »

apitman wrote: post #350
fluoridation wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An adjacent question is whether there are too many people on the planet for that to be an option anymore even if it were legal. Do you mean for everyone to be hunter-gatherers? Yes, that would be impossible. If you mean for a smaller number then it depends on the number.

Yeah I think it would be interesting to know how far over the line we are.

Probably way, way over the line. Population sizes exploded after the agricultural revolution. I wouldn't be surprised if the maximum is like 0.1-1% of the current population. If we're talking about strictly eating what's available without any cultivation at all, nature is really inefficient at providing for us.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#358

Post by fluoridation »

apitman wrote: post #355
fluoridation wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount ? So you wouldn't accept a job to moderate Facebook for a million dollars a day? If you would, then surely you would also do it for a lower number. There is an equilibrium point.

> So you wouldn't accept a job to moderate Facebook for a million dollars a day? I would hope not.

Sorry, but I don't believe you. You could work for a month or two and retire. Or hell, just do it for one day and then return to your old job. That's a cool one mill in the bank.

My point is, job shittiness can be priced in.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#359

Post by bloppe »

gruez wrote: post #275
lm28469 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a doctor is paid $$$$$ and it mostly is a vocational job Content moderator is a min wage job with bad working hours, no psychological support, and you spend your day looking at rape, child porn, torture and executions.

>Also a doctor is paid $$$$$ >Content moderator is a min wage job So it's purely a monetary dispute? >bad working hours, no psychological support, and you spend your day looking at rape, child porn, torture and executions. Many other jobs have the same issues, though admittedly with less frequency, but where do you draw the line?

> So it's purely a monetary dispute?

I wouldn't say purely, but substantially yes. PTSD has costs. The article says some out; therapy, medication, mental, physical, and social health issues. Some of these money can directly cover, whereas others can only be kinda sorta justified with high enough pay.

I think a sustainable moderation industry would try hard to attract the kinds of people who are able to perform this job without too much negative impacts, and quickly relieve those who try but are not well suited, and pay for some therapy.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#360

Post by MacsHeadroom »

guerrilla wrote: post #213
azinman2 wrote: post #175

> The moderators from Kenya and other African countries were tasked from 2019 to 2023 with checking posts emanating from Africa and in their own languages but were paid eight times less than their counterparts in the US, according to the claim documents Why would pay in different countries be equivalent? Pretty sure FB doesn’t even pay the same to their engineers depending on where in the US they are, let alone which…

> Why would pay in different countries be equivalent? Because it's exploitative otherwise. It's just exploiting the fact that they're imprisoned within borders.

Paying local market rates is not exploitative.
Post reply on HN