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More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

theguardian.com

321–330 of 500 posts

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at least in the US, those jobs - doctors, cops, firefighters, first responders - are well compensated (not sure about prison guards), certainly compared to content moderators who are at the bottom of the totem pole in an org like FB

Shamefully, first responders are not well compensated - usually it's ~$20 an hour.

I've lived places where the cops make $100k+. It all depends on location.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#322

> The moderators from Kenya and other African countries were tasked from 2019 to 2023 with checking posts emanating from Africa and in their own languages but were paid eight times less than their counterparts in the US, according to the claim documents Why would pay in different countries be equivalent? Pretty sure FB doesn’t even pay the same to their engineers depending on where in the US they are, let alone which…

> Why would pay in different countries be equivalent? Because it's exploitative otherwise. It's just exploiting the fact that they're imprisoned within borders.

You haven't actually explained why it's bad, only slapped an evil sounding label on it. What's "exploitative" in this case and why is it morally wrong?

>they're imprisoned within borders

What's the implication of this then? That we remove all migration controls?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#323
post #314
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but where do you draw the line? How about grouping the jobs into two categories: A) Causes PTSD and B) Doesn't cause PTSD If a job as a constantly high percentage of people ending up with PTSD, then they aren't equipped well enough to handle it, by the company who employs them.

>How about grouping the jobs into two categories: A) Causes PTSD and B) Doesn't cause PTSD I fail to see how this addresses my previous questions of "it's purely a monetary dispute?" and "where do you draw the line?". If a job "Causes PTSD" (whatever that means), then what? Are you entitled to hazard pay? Does this work out in the end to a higher minimum wage for certain jobs? Moreover, we don't have similar classifi…

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Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also exploiting the fact that humans need food and shelter to live and money is used to acquire those things.

That's only exploitation if you combine it with fact of the enclosure of the commons and that all land and productive equipment on Earth is private or state property and that it's virtually impossible to just go farm or hunt for yourself without being fucked with anymore, let alone do anything more advanced without being shut down violently.

>the enclosure of the commons and that all land and productive equipment on Earth is private or state property and that it's virtually impossible to just go farm or hunt for yourself without being fucked with anymore, let alone do anything more advanced without being shut down violently.

How would land allocation work without "enclosure of the commons"? Does it just become a free-for-all? What happens if you want to use the land for grazing but someone else wants it for growing crops? "enclosure of the commons" conveniently solves all these issues by giving exclusive control to one person.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#325
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, these jobs are horrible. However, I do know from accidently encountering bad stuff on the internet that you want to be as far away from a modern battlefield as possible. It's just kind of ridiculous how people think war is like Call of Duty. One minute you're sitting in a trench, the next you're a pile of undifferentiated blood and guts. Same goes for car accidents and stuff. People really underestimate how frag…

I don't mean to trivialize traumatic experiences but I think many modern people, especially the pampered members of the professional-managerial class, have become too disconnected from reality. Anyone who has hunted or butchered animals is well aware of the fragility of life. This doesn't damage our concept of normal life.

My brother, an Eastern-European part-time farmer and full-time lorry driver, just texted me a couple of hours ago (I had told him I would call him in the next hour) that he might be with his hands full of meat by that time as “we’ve just butchered our pig Ghitza” (those sausages and piftii aren’t going to get made by themselves).

Now, ask a laptop worker to butcher an animal whom used to have a name and to literally turn its meat into sausages and see what said worker’s reaction would be.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shamefully, first responders are not well compensated - usually it's ~$20 an hour.

I've lived places where the cops make $100k+. It all depends on location.

Sorry - I'm specifically referring to EMTs and Paramedics, who usually make somewhere in the realm of $18-25 an hour.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#328
post #280
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also a doctor is paid $$$$$ >Content moderator is a min wage job So it's purely a monetary dispute? >bad working hours, no psychological support, and you spend your day looking at rape, child porn, torture and executions. Many other jobs have the same issues, though admittedly with less frequency, but where do you draw the line?

> but where do you draw the line? How about grouping the jobs into two categories: A) Causes PTSD and B) Doesn't cause PTSD If a job as a constantly high percentage of people ending up with PTSD, then they aren't equipped well enough to handle it, by the company who employs them.

What could a company provide a police officer with to prevent PTSD from witnessing a brutal child abuse case? A number of sources i found estimate the top of the range to be ~30% of police officers may be suffering from it

[1] https://www.policepac.org/uploads/1/2/3/0/123060500/the_effe...

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#329
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of a policy like that for physicians and doubt it's common for paramedics. I work in an ICU and a typical day involves a death or resuscitation. We would run out of staff with that policy.

Maybe it's different in the US where ambulances cost money, but here in Germany the typical paramedic will see a wide variety of cases, with the vast majority of patients surviving the encounter. Giving your paramedic a day off after witnessing a death wouldn't break the bank. In the ICU or emergency room it would be a different story.

Ambulances cost money everywhere, it's just a matter of who is paying. Do we think paramedics in Germany are more susceptible to PTSD when patients die than ICU or ER staff, or paramedics anywhere?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would pay in different countries be equivalent? Why 8 times less?

Because people chose to take the jobs, so presumably they thought it was fair compensation compared to alternatives. Unless there's evidence they were coerced in some way? Note that I'm equating all jobs here. No amount of compensation makes it worth seeing horrible things. They are separate variables.

No amount? So you wouldn't accept a job to moderate Facebook for a million dollars a day? If you would, then surely you would also do it for a lower number. There is an equilibrium point.
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