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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#941

Post by jki275 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #469
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

> have declared the "rules-based world order" dead I have hunker are confusing two things here - there is international law, which the US and other delinquents break regularly. And there is Rules based world order, which is what US talks about and attempts to impose. For example imposing sanctions on Russia does not have basis in international law, but is part of ‘rules based order’

There is no such thing as "international law" in the way you use the term.

There are treaties that countries either sign or do not sign. The US isn't breaking treaties it has signed, at least not in the general case.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#942

Post by ashoeafoot »

A whole cladde of people here who collectively decided that the politics of the outside and the ugly that came from it does not matter anymore, specialising in the interior design of society with the most horrid weapon being a social ostracizing. The idea that building could pancake under artillery fire from the vacuum just is not part of reality and now papertiger hissy fits from the windows .

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#943

Post by gryzzly »

cwkoss wrote: post #671
h_tbob wrote: post #289

I don’t get why Israel waged war on Gaza instead of just going for the guy who ordered the attack. Any thoughts?

The Gaza invasion was never about the hostages. If Israel cared about the hostages they wouldn't have indiscriminately bombed the entire territory. The hostages are dead, and demanding the impossible return of people they killed is simply a pretext: They want land expansion and the total ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Look up 'Greater Israel'. Tim Walz accidentally let it slip during a debate that this is the goal of…

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#944

Post by rendall »

Yeul wrote: post #938

This leads to a bit of a conundrum for the Netherlands. It is the home of the ICC and officially a big sponsor of international justice. But also the right wing government has a hard on for Israel. I don't think that our esteemed ancestors ever envisioned white people to end up in court... The leader of the PVV (biggest political party) is going to visit colonial settlers in Israël. Many immigrants hate Israel. Offic…

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#945

Post by dotancohen »

alluro2 wrote: post #923
dotancohen wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I understand where you're coming from, and the need to put pieces together so that the image of oneself or their identity is acceptable. However, while doing that, you're just ignoring the number of killed people. Unfortunately, there's no way to assemble that kind of image of Israel in this situation, where it's not red in blood of Palestinian civilians. Not to say that it's any different on the other side, and not…

  > However, while doing that, you're just ignoring the number of killed people.
If the number of dead were an issue, then where are the protests about Sudan (60,000 dead)? Yemen (350,000 dead)? Syria (500,000 dead)?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#946

Post by dismalaf »

Hikikomori wrote: post #465
dismalaf wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you need to provide evidence for your claims There's tons of it, plenty of mainstream media reported it while it was happening. If you choose not to believe it, that's because of your biases and no amount of hard evidence will sway you. Also ask yourself, why has Egypt had a blockade against Gaza for longer than Israel?

Because they don't want Israel's prisoners to spill over into their country. Israel has controlled what can pass the border since 2007 or so.

> Israel has controlled what can pass the border since 2007 or so.

Literally every country controls what passes their borders...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#947

Post by rendall »

Yeul wrote: post #938

This leads to a bit of a conundrum for the Netherlands. It is the home of the ICC and officially a big sponsor of international justice. But also the right wing government has a hard on for Israel. I don't think that our esteemed ancestors ever envisioned white people to end up in court... The leader of the PVV (biggest political party) is going to visit colonial settlers in Israël. Many immigrants hate Israel. Offic…

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#948

Post by bawolff »

StefanBatory wrote: post #160
bawolff wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's the minister of defense (not anymore but was at the time). If the allegations are true, then as minister of defense he probably ordered the things in question (or failed to stop them)

Okay, failing to stop them is a fair point I haven't considered - thanks.

That said, it seems he is mostly accused of direct criminal liability not superior liability (failing to prevent/punish)

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#949

Post by rendall »

Yeul wrote: post #938

This leads to a bit of a conundrum for the Netherlands. It is the home of the ICC and officially a big sponsor of international justice. But also the right wing government has a hard on for Israel. I don't think that our esteemed ancestors ever envisioned white people to end up in court... The leader of the PVV (biggest political party) is going to visit colonial settlers in Israël. Many immigrants hate Israel. Offic…

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#950

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #704
edanm wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? Absolutely this matters. This effectively limits where Netanyahu and Gallant can travel to. That's a big deal for a head of state. It sends a signal to all of Europe to be wary of doing business with Israel, which is a big deal. We also don't kno…

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

[deleted]
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