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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also note that the US imposed heavy sanctions on Ethopia and Eritrea’s entire government party, head of state, spouses and businesses under the exact same observations of provoking famine and starvation EO 14046

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You can literally go on social media and see first-hand videos of the things happening in real-time there for yourself.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

One thing I've learned these past 20 years: when an awful political leader seems to obviously be undergoing a downfall and on their way out of power, you can be sure they'll be there 20 years later. And they'll outlive all of us too, even if they're already geriatric.

As it turns out, being a very powerful person politically with access to nearly unlimited funding can get you pretty great medical care.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#853
post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of moral wars is a myth manufactured by the war propaganda machine. I wouldn't object to all three of them being tried. I think Zelensky probably has the strongest defense, but I'm not fully informed on the conflict.

So, just to be clear, you think any country that's invaded should just immediately surrender? So if I invade the US tomorrow with a sharpened stick, they have to hand their country over because any kind of defence is immoral?

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/16/ukraine-must-i...

"A controversial Amnesty International report asserted that Ukrainian military tactics put civilians in danger. Video footage has since been published suggesting that Ukrainian troops may have executed surrendering Russian officers in the town of Makiivka. Back in 2019, the International Criminal Court (ICC) determined that Ukrainian forces committed possible war crimes against Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine.

To be clear: none of these allegations draws moral or legal equivalency between the acts of Ukrainian and Russian forces. Any alleged crimes committed by Ukrainian officers pale in comparison to the aggression and barbarity Russian forces have demonstrated in Ukraine. But all atrocities must be accounted for, not just those of one’s enemies."

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> We will target all of Hamas's positions. We will turn Gaza into a deserted island. The fact, the Gaza part is a separate sentence is telling. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/7/world-is-watching-f... > You have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss of a long war that will lead to destruction and suffering like we see in Gaza. Is what he said to Lebanon, where he threatened to do simila…

Does anyone have an original, in English or in Hebrew of what he said? Not a news source retelling or worse - translation

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel was massively radicalized by October 7th. Prior to October 7th, a lot of Israelis believed that if Palestinians had a better economy and could afford a comfortable life, peace would be possible. October 7th was not just a surprise to many Israelis, but also the atrocities were so horrible that it radically changed how Israelis view the situation. This is hard to grasp, but a lot of people don't really understa…

I agree that what the IDF is doing to Palestinians, now and for a long time is very tragic, and it's also tragic how many of their own people and fellow soldiers they (IDF) killed on Oct 7th.

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#856
post #12

(before you jump into discussion, remember that this only about these two individuals) ICC and the prosecutor are on very solid ground here. The prosecutor asked opinions from a impartial panel of experts in international law. The panel included people like Theodor Meron (former Legal adviser for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Helene Kennedy, Adrian Fulford. Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant provided plenty of ev…

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

Lots of things that have a real effect in the world are a convenient fiction. The fact that most people on the planet believe that the small paper rectangles printed by the US government have some value, is a consensual belief simultaneously held but no less a fiction.

The rules based order of the world was once something people believed in, and therefore expected others to conform to. Until they didn’t (for lots of reasons all of which cumulatively perturbed the system such that it’s flipped from a stable state and into a meta-stable state).

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is incredibly likely another series of warrants will be issued for the next level down of both Israeli and Hamas leadership. It is too bad Lebanon didn't ratify the ICC treaty. They really should have.

It is indeed ridiculous that Lebanon didn’t join the ICC, one has to imagine that Hezbollah played a role in that decision. Which is funny because all the Palestinian resistance factions actually pushed for ICC jurisdiction to the extent that they called for it to apply to them and Israel equally! The hoops the Palestinians had to jump through to join the ICC were crazy, including (reified) threats of heavy punishmen…

Actually, most reports are that the US is the one that pressured Lebanon not to join the ICC, to prevent the ICC from having jursidiction over warcrimes the IDF comits in Lebanon/

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind the conviction rate at ICC is pretty low. My understanding is that's because it's usually difficult to show intent . However, in this case, not only do we have an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes, but we also have a huge catalogue of Israeli politicians explicitly calling for the genocide of Gaza. My biggest concern over this is what the US and/or Mossad will do...

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It’s not war in terms of international law if it’s internal. Not clear cut that it’s not internal, but there’s nuance.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also note that the US imposed heavy sanctions on Ethopia and Eritrea’s entire government party, head of state, spouses and businesses under the exact same observations of provoking famine and starvation EO 14046

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I would like to see the same standard applied by the US, or demonstrate that the US has far more options than its tacit consent, I would like the US to be completely uninvolved, and point out how the US’ leverage in the situation doesn’t involve Congress just the stroke of a pen from any President, leading the Office of Foreign Assets Control

since it would simultaneously be “anti-Semitic” to do this or avoid doing this by assuming cutting Israelis off from the global financial system to be uniquely debilitating, we could find out which view has a kernel of truth attached, and it shouldn’t be a problem at all

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#860

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

> then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault

War is hell. But this war could have been conducted better. Yes, aid was being diverted by Hamas. But that doesn't mean you stop providing it, it means you do what you must to take control on the ground. The deaths from bombings, et cetera have not been found to be war crimes. The starvation, which was and continues to be avoidable, is.

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