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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#341

Post by ComputerGuru »

bhouston wrote: post #39
Qem wrote: post #2

> The Chamber issued warrants of arrest for two individuals, Mr Benjamin Netanyahu and Mr Yoav Gallant, for crimes against humanity and war crimes committed from at least 8 October 2023 until at least 20 May 2024 And things got much worse in the latter part of 2024. Even if the court didn't take into account facts after 20 May 2024, ample evidence already existing by then was already enough to issue the warrants. Whe…

It is incredibly likely another series of warrants will be issued for the next level down of both Israeli and Hamas leadership. It is too bad Lebanon didn't ratify the ICC treaty. They really should have.

It is indeed ridiculous that Lebanon didn’t join the ICC, one has to imagine that Hezbollah played a role in that decision. Which is funny because all the Palestinian resistance factions actually pushed for ICC jurisdiction to the extent that they called for it to apply to them and Israel equally! The hoops the Palestinians had to jump through to join the ICC were crazy, including (reified) threats of heavy punishments from the US if they did.

Here’s the full story if anyone is interested: https://palepedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court%27s_...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#342

Post by ceejayoz »

dismalaf wrote: post #333
ceejayoz wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accordingly, they issued similar warrants for (what's left of) Hamas leadership on the same day. https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-state-palestine-icc-p... > Or that most aid is going through Israel itself because Egypt still has a blockade against Gaza. Israel very much prefers it that way. It's a very significant piece of leverage for them. They signed a treaty in 2007 requiring Israeli authorization of anythi…

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> Considering Hamas live-streamed their atrocities the ICC could have done this a year ago...

Netanyahu's actions have similarly been quite widely live-streamed.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#343

Post by bawolff »

croes wrote: post #312
dankai wrote: post #45

"The Chamber therefore found reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant bear criminal responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare." Whats perhaps interesting to note is that this charge was made for "just" 41 [1] confirmed starvation deaths among a population of 2,141,643 people [2]. Of course every death caused by intentional starvation is a severe crime and must be puni…

What’s the threshold for war crimes?

The crimes have a definition with requisite elements in the rome statue.

While many of them do require a certain gravity, viewing international crimes like a more serious version of a normal crime is probably the wrong way of doing it. Some war crimes do not require anyone to die. In other cases thousands could die and it wouldn't be a war crime or crime against humanity because the elements aren't met.

In particular, starvation doesn't require anyone to have died, and it covers more things than just food. Keep in mind its a relatively new crime in international law, it was only made illegal in 1977 (for example during ww2, the nuremburg trials explicitly ruled that sieges were legal). As far as i know nobody has ever been persecuted for it, so the case law doesn't exist, so its a bit unknown.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#345

Post by mmastrac »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #236
TrueDuality wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courts are political entities but this is one that Israel chose to accept and recognize the authority of. It has a history of being very transparent in its decisions and is widely recognized as being neutral and fair in their decision making process. Of course the person charged and found guilty of a crime will argue against the court. Disagreement, even if valid, doesn't change the recognized authority of this court…

> Courts are political entities but this is one that Israel chose to accept For what it’s worth, Israel signed the Rome Statute establishing the court in 2000 but declared in 2002 it no longer intends to ratify it[1]. (Which, I guess, is marginally better than the US, which has threatened The Hague with military invasion in case any arrests are made[2]. But not by much.) TFA specifically points out that “States are n…

As a follow-up to [2], even more interesting is the text of covered persons:

"military personnel, elected or appointed officials, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the government of a NATO member country, a major non-NATO ally including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, Argentina, the Republic of Korea, and New Zealand"

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#346

Post by ComputerGuru »

For context, this is only possible because the state of Palestine pushed hard and persisted for years to become an ICC member and thus give the ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed on Palestinian territory, whether by Israel or by Palestinian factions. The USA is still mad at them for doing it.

The full account is worth reading, it includes considerations by the various resistance factions that they’d also be subject to ICC jurisdiction and realized threats of punitive measures by the USA and Israel if they continued to push for ICC membership: https://palepedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court%27s_...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#347

Post by ceejayoz »

generationP wrote: post #228
GordonS wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> When did rockets become "small arms" by the way?

Many rockets fall within the SALW category.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_arms_and_light_weapons

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#348

Post by maeil »

CSMastermind wrote: post #265
input_sh wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to introduce you to the Hague Invasion Act, signed into law 22 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... > The Act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court".[2] If you dig a little further,…

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One of the most absurdist takes I've seen even on the context of this topic, which brings out the worst in all of us.

It's called sovereignty. A set of sovereign nations should absolutely be able to decide that they want to form a court and arrest someone for war crimes if they set foot in their country. It's not like the court is sending agents to non-participating countries to arrest people. If the US govt decides they want to arrest e.g. Putin the second he sets foot on US soil, it's their right to do so. In fact it does so, just look at the FBI most wanted fugitives list, or Interpol red notices. Same goes here.

The prosecuted are free not to set foot in participating countries.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#349

Post by dismalaf »

ceejayoz wrote: post #342
dismalaf wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Considering Hamas live-streamed their atrocities the ICC could have done this a year ago... Netanyahu's actions have similarly been quite widely live-streamed.

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#350

Post by peppers-ghost »

retskrad wrote: post #319

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Our tax money is funding these atrocities. I felt the same way about the genocide in Yemen.

>Around the world, countless marginalized groups face equally dire or even worse conditions and would welcome similar support from these people

I don't think this is true. The majority of people dying of or suffering from starvation on earth right now are in Gaza.

>Yet, these so-called human rights advocates remain willfully ignorant of anyone or anything happening outside of the US and the Israel/Palestine conlflict.

You have blinders on if you think this is the case.

>Given this, how can anyone take these protesters seriously when they exhibit a groupthink mentality, lacking self-awareness or critical thinking, and behaving more like zombies than independent thinkers?

I'd rather you didn't take us seriously if you're not going to fully understand our goals or reasons for our beliefs.

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