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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#781

Post by runarberg »

dotancohen wrote: post #760
GordonS wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind the conviction rate at ICC is pretty low. My understanding is that's because it's usually difficult to show intent . However, in this case, not only do we have an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes, but we also have a huge catalogue of Israeli politicians explicitly calling for the genocide of Gaza. My biggest concern over this is what the US and/or Mossad will do...

[flagged]

The charges in question are that of targeting hospitals and hindering aid from reaching Gaza. Netanyahu and Gallant are being charged with the policy of targeting hospitals and hindering aid. The videos we have of people dying are only related to the crime if they show how hospitals or aid convoys were targeted. Of which we have plenty. For example the flour massacre is only one of many instances of aid being targeted which resulted in hundreds of civilians dying. And the fact the the four massacre was not an isolated incident, but followed a pattern of other links in the aid chain being targeted or otherwise prevented from being delivered to civilians is a very good argument for that this is actually a policy, of which Netanyahu and Gallant are guilty.

The charges are not of war crimes, but of crimes against humanity. A war crime is an event which individual soldiers or commanders, or generals are guilty of. Crimes agains humanity is criminal policy which politicians are charged for.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#782

Post by 3vidence »

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes??

If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault.

Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#783

Post by beepbooptheory »

gspencley wrote: post #506
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #82

>In his first response to the ICC issuing a warrant for his arrest on allegations of war crimes, Benjamin Netanyahu’s office has described the ruling as “absurd and false lies” and said the decision is “antisemitic.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/nov/21/internati... If Netanyahu and Gallant really think they are innocent, and the allegations are absurd and false, they should cooperate with the ICC. Have…

> If Netanyahu and Gallant really think they are innocent, and the allegations are absurd and false, they should cooperate with the ICC. Have your day in court and show how absurd the accusations are. I don't know if I agree with this. If the ICC is an honest organization that stands for individual rights, liberty and justice then sure. If, on the other hand, the ICC is a corrupt organization that invites the worst o…

Is it any data point at all to you that ICC exists and functions in many ways because of the literal Holocaust that happened during WWII? Like the same genocide that also catalyzed Israel's existence? Or is it still important, in your mind, to do our own work investigating the ICC before we think anything?

Im just saying, its important to be skeptical I guess, but all these comments being like "well who are these ICC people anyway?" can't help but be a little (darkly) funny to me. Like is this really the point where everyone just stops pretending to be good guys about this? Its like being a teenager and being angry at your mother for birthing you because she caught you doing something bad.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#784

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

tomohawk wrote: post #668

[flagged]

Um. I would take the hand-wringing a little more seriously if it were not for the fact that Israeli army is not exactly known for being super adherent to rules of engagement you suggest[1]. Please do note that this is US media saying this, which is already doing what it can to cover for Israel with oh so familiar talking points.

Some of us do take issue with indiscriminately bombing a hospital to get one 'bad guy' or even ten 'bad guys'. Maybe it was more excusable when technology was less.. accurate, but it is very hard to argue that point when the country bombing said hospital is able to surgically explode pagers in Lebanon[2]. And Israel can't even take over a small enclave it almost completely cut off from the rest of the world?

That is risable. And all this after massive US support both in blood in treasury.

[1]https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human... [2]https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz04m913m49o

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#785

Post by dotancohen »

latentcall wrote: post #684
underdeserver wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1200 dead including children and elderly. Useful. Are you serious?

Yes I am serious. Obviously 1200 dead is sad. Disregarding the emotions, on an Israeli political level it IS useful to rally the country to finally handle the Palestine problem once and for all, which is what is happening right now.

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#786

Post by mandmandam »

edanm wrote: post #612
GordonS wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind the conviction rate at ICC is pretty low. My understanding is that's because it's usually difficult to show intent . However, in this case, not only do we have an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes, but we also have a huge catalogue of Israeli politicians explicitly calling for the genocide of Gaza. My biggest concern over this is what the US and/or Mossad will do...

> However, in this case, not only do we have an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes, but we also have a huge catalogue of Israeli politicians explicitly calling for the genocide of Gaza. I disagree that there is an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes that are relevant here. And I also disagree that there is a huge catalogue of Netanyahu and Gallant making statements that show intent. For t…

> I disagree that there is an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes that are relevant here.

You can disagree with the facts all you like; it won't change them. Those videos and statements exist, whether you believe in them or not. You can see them on Twitter, on TikTok, on Instagram, or YouTube.

And there's more every single day.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#787

Post by tacheiordache »

3vidence wrote: post #782

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

No but this opinion is unjustifiably considered antisemitic and you couuld potentially have unwanted repercussions e.g. lose your job if you make it public. Such are the times we live in.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#788

Post by spacemadness »

tuyguntn wrote: post #219

If Netanyahu and Gallant declared as war criminals, does it also mean whoever helped them during the 2024 is complicit? Wondering what happens to so many Western leaders who supported Netanyahu unconditionally.

I wish. The US government has been an absolute disgrace in how we've handled support of Israel unflinchingly. I guess we didn't write enough sternly written letters while people were being forcibly starved to death.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#790

Post by rasz »

3vidence wrote: post #782

Am I the only one who thinks it's completely justified for leaders of both sides to be wanted for war crimes?? If someone assaults me and I retaliate by injuring their family members then both the assilant and me are both guilty for criminal assault. Maybe not a perfect analogy but that's what it seems has happened here...

Sure, like bullied kid getting suspended because all this trouble is because of him.
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