Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion" • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#41

Post by imgabe » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:03 PM UTC

swang wrote: post #33

imgabe wrote: post #10

> “By default, messages from friends or friends of friends go into your Inbox. Everything else goes to your Other folder So, your email service works in this way that's completely unlike every other email service in existence (where all messages go to the inbox unless you tell them otherwise), and it's the users' fault for not understanding it?

Facebook knows most users don't want another email account that is just going to get filled with spam. So how does Facebook deal with spam? Simple, it puts it into your Others folder. Otherwise you get users complaining about spam in their messages.

Most users didn't want another email account period. They certainly didn't want Facebook to make that decision for them.

It doesn't sound like "Other" was meant to be a spam folder. If that's the case why didn't they just call it "Spam" and install a spam filter to send mail there?

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#42

Post by cjdavis » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:07 PM UTC

I've never heard of the 'other' folder before. So I go look for it and find a message from an old college friend getting back in touch. From 10 months ago. Thanks FB.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#43

Post by mdc » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:07 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

I am reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon where they bring in a usability expert to help them write an app. After suggesting that the computer shock the user when they do the wrong thing, he quips, "I found this job to be a lot easier once I realized I hated people" Seriously, Facebook. Do one thing and do it well. Enough of this conquer-the-universe bullshit. I'm already at the point where I want to jump ship; I just…

I think that Dilbert cartoon is very apropos. Facebook employees seem to treat their site as one big Skinner box and they're trying to see how far they can go.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#44

Post by vibrunazo » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:07 PM UTC

anon808 wrote: post #28

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

I am reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon where they bring in a usability expert to help them write an app. After suggesting that the computer shock the user when they do the wrong thing, he quips, "I found this job to be a lot easier once I realized I hated people" Seriously, Facebook. Do one thing and do it well. Enough of this conquer-the-universe bullshit. I'm already at the point where I want to jump ship; I just…

"I just can't figure out how to do it without losing contact with my friends." easy . . . call them, visit them, email them, write letters to them. you don't need an application to managed personal relationships.

How do I find their email address, tho? :P

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#45

Post by freehunter » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:11 PM UTC

bmj wrote: post #37

anon808 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just can't figure out how to do it without losing contact with my friends." easy . . . call them, visit them, email them, write letters to them. you don't need an application to managed personal relationships.

I agree with you, but there's another issue here: some of your friends may not actually respond to email messages. Personally, I'm a fan of email and letter writing (and not a fan of the phone), but I've fallen out of touch with several friends because if you don't contact them via Facebook or Twitter (I do neither), you won't hear back from them.

Another thing email doesn't do well: the idea of "I have something to say, but passively". Maybe you want to announce a change in your life, or a party, or some thought that you had. It's far less annoying to put it on Facebook where your friends can digest it (or not) at their leisure, rather than in an email demanding to be read.

"Hey, what's your new address?"

"I emailed it to you, go search through your messages"

vs

"Check my Facebook profile"

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#46

Post by pinkbucket » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:20 PM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #44

anon808 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just can't figure out how to do it without losing contact with my friends." easy . . . call them, visit them, email them, write letters to them. you don't need an application to managed personal relationships.

How do I find their email address, tho? :P

You join!

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#47

Post by theorique » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:20 PM UTC

spaghetti wrote: post #17

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

I am reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon where they bring in a usability expert to help them write an app. After suggesting that the computer shock the user when they do the wrong thing, he quips, "I found this job to be a lot easier once I realized I hated people" Seriously, Facebook. Do one thing and do it well. Enough of this conquer-the-universe bullshit. I'm already at the point where I want to jump ship; I just…

Jumping ship was easy for me. I catch-up with my local friends in person at a local bar or cafe. I catch-up with my remote friends by traveling to their city and going to a bar or cafe there. Or they come visit me. It's infinity more satisfying and relaxing that consuming status updates containing skewed and filtered representations of someone's life.

consuming status updates containing skewed and filtered representations of someone's life.

I much prefer skewed and filtered representations of my friends.

It's much easier to interact with a caricatured, mean-field average of my 900 or so Facebook friends (aka "the audience") than to do it (shudder) one-on-one.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#48

Post by pinkbucket » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:27 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #45

bmj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, but there's another issue here: some of your friends may not actually respond to email messages. Personally, I'm a fan of email and letter writing (and not a fan of the phone), but I've fallen out of touch with several friends because if you don't contact them via Facebook or Twitter (I do neither), you won't hear back from them.

Another thing email doesn't do well: the idea of "I have something to say, but passively". Maybe you want to announce a change in your life, or a party, or some thought that you had. It's far less annoying to put it on Facebook where your friends can digest it (or not) at their leisure, rather than in an email demanding to be read. "Hey, what's your new address?" "I emailed it to you, go search through your messages"…

I get what you are saying. The one good thing about Facebook is that it took a lot of that fluff out of my inbox. But could I not have learnt to manage/gloss over it?

The thing that Facebook does well - is tracking down contacts - to add to your 'address book.' It's not so easy in the world of email. That's because we aren't publishing our address books publicly (probably for good reason.)

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#49

Post by rhizome » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:27 PM UTC

nicholassmith wrote: post #18

Nothing is a cheaper move from a company than blaming the user for not getting the questionable decision. Take some responsibility for your decisions both positive and negative.

They're just buying time, PR-wise, until they come up with a good explanation, which they don't have yet. There will be meta-controversy over blaming the users, after which FB will come out with new and improved interface signalling, documentation, and a non-apology.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#50

Post by betterth » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 6:29 PM UTC

anon808 wrote: post #28

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

I am reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon where they bring in a usability expert to help them write an app. After suggesting that the computer shock the user when they do the wrong thing, he quips, "I found this job to be a lot easier once I realized I hated people" Seriously, Facebook. Do one thing and do it well. Enough of this conquer-the-universe bullshit. I'm already at the point where I want to jump ship; I just…

"I just can't figure out how to do it without losing contact with my friends." easy . . . call them, visit them, email them, write letters to them. you don't need an application to managed personal relationships.

If it was this simple than Facebook would never have caught on in the first place. The answer isn't "rollback" because clearly there is some value here. The answer is finding out how to maximize that value to our lives, not maximize the payout for investors.