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How long til we're all on Ozempic?

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Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#831

Post by t-writescode »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #823
dfxm12 wrote: post #170

Instead of a system that makes these drug available for purchase, I'd rather live in a system that promotes healthy food and active behavior. Unfortunately, I have to drive everywhere, work too many hours to have free time for recreation and have no idea which government subsidy is going to help big ag likely at the expense of my health. All things being equal, I'd prefer to spend less money on prescriptions and have…

But you already live in a system that promotes that, quite heavily. Healthy food and active behavior make you more physically attractive, which is in turn linked to better life outcomes along almost every metric you can care to think of. There is, in fact, already an enormous, fully endogenous incentive to do those things. The fact many people are not keeping in shape (myself included) suggests the allure of food rea…

> But you already live in a system that promotes that

Correction. We live in a system that *rewards* that. The infrastructure and system itself expects us to drive everywhere (because it's either faster or literally at all possible), eat overprocessed food (because it's tastier (literally designed to be hyper-palpable) and faster), and to work for absurd hours.

If you somehow have spoons after all that, then you're expected to workout, etc, to gain the additional benefits; but the systems in play do not facilitate that, at all.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#832

Post by wiseowise »

pixl97 wrote: post #494
hilux wrote: post #434

Living a healthy lifestyle, so that you won't need Ozempic, is possible - even surrounded by all the drugs and booze and carbs. I do it. Lots of people do it. The information is freely available, now more than ever. From all I've read, Ozempic isn't a silver bullet, and has many side effects. It just helps people stave off the inevitable for a while.

Well good for you, aren't you special... Now what about the other 74% of the population. You ever hear the saying "If you owe the bank $1000 dollars, that's your problem. If you owe the bank a million it's theirs" This is a public health epidemic and no matter how much you scream "But I'm special" the rest of the world is going to fall apart around you. And yes, this issue is spreading to the entire world and not jus…

> and no matter how much you scream "But I'm special"

Literally opposite of what they’re saying. You’re the one who screams “I’m special, diet and exercise don’t work on me, I’m defying physics”.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#833

Post by wiseowise »

soulbadguy wrote: post #365

As every conversation with weigth management/obesity treatment, there are still people thinking that just more willing power / better habits is what's needed. To those people I suggest you run an experiment : what ever your current body weigth is right now. Try loosing and keeping off 20%.

> To those people I suggest you run an experiment : what ever your current body weigth is right now. Try loosing and keeping off 20%.

Easy peasy. I’d be borderline anorexie if I do that, but wouldn’t be much of a problem to achieve that.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#834

Post by wiseowise »

gcanyon wrote: post #774

To anyone thinking that exercise will fix anything: I've owned a Concept 2 rowing machine since 2005. In that time I've done an average of 100 workouts per year, for a total of over 35 days of rowing. Some workouts were relatively easy 120bpm heart rate; some were at a relatively brutal 160bpm. Concept 2 estimates I've burned just over 600,000 calories, or about 1,000 Big Macs. Could I have eaten 1,000 Big Macs in 19…

> I've owned a Concept 2 rowing machine since 2005.

Well here’s your problem. You should’ve bought barbell 20 years ago. Or at least a couple of kettlebells.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#835

Post by wiseowise »

rootusrootus wrote: post #605
nostromo wrote: post #558

For the longest time people argued if overweight people ate too much or not. I’ve heard plausible sounding arguments on both sides. It seems Ozempic has answered that question decisively, no? The solution to being overweight is eating less in almost all cases it seems. And feeling less hungry with Ozempic can help get you there.

> For the longest time people argued if overweight people ate too much or not. Maybe uneducated people, but when was the last time anyone seriously doubted that excess calories make you fat? For serious people the discussion has always been about how to reduce the calories, because "just eat less" is provably ineffective. Simple minded people continuously suggest otherwise, but data really doesn't support their intui…

[dead]

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#836

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

t-writescode wrote: post #831
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you already live in a system that promotes that, quite heavily. Healthy food and active behavior make you more physically attractive, which is in turn linked to better life outcomes along almost every metric you can care to think of. There is, in fact, already an enormous, fully endogenous incentive to do those things. The fact many people are not keeping in shape (myself included) suggests the allure of food rea…

> But you already live in a system that promotes that Correction. We live in a system that *rewards* that. The infrastructure and system itself expects us to drive everywhere (because it's either faster or literally at all possible), eat overprocessed food (because it's tastier (literally designed to be hyper-palpable) and faster), and to work for absurd hours. If you somehow have spoons after all that, then you're e…

I see no difference between "promotes" and "rewards" here. If it's a difference of intent, I'll point to everyone in this thread consciously "promoting" a lifestyle of fewer working hours, cleaner food, and less driving as a much more salient viewpoint than the opposite. And if the difference is because of "the system", well, you're going to have to differentiate between the system of living in human society and ... some subset of that system, I guess. Some subset

Luckily there's a precise term from economics we can use here to split the difference: Opportunity cost. I can certainly concede that in some people's lives the opportunity cost to working out is higher. In some lives you make a lot more money per hour worked than you do working out, and so it's not a surprise more people on the margin in those situations choose the former over the latter. If you dislike even having that option on the table, the good news is you can move to someplace where you make less money, and then that opportunity cost will go down, because working out is pretty much the same wherever you go.

One more sophisticated take of course is to claim people don't really know what's good for them, and they discount the true value of working out far too heavily. (s/working out/eating less/g, or whatever other health promoting difficult activity you wish to sub in here.) But, if we're going to claim that -- which is actually pretty reasonable -- then why would we consider a miracle drug that seems to directly counteract that irrational discounting a bad thing? That should be a godsend.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#837

Post by wiseowise »

apsec112 wrote: post #22
indiebat wrote: post #17

I don’t want this to come out insensitive or from under the rock, but why is taking a drug a novel & cool idea (all of a sudden/recently) as opposed to good old fashioned working out and not eating more than what you need? okay, this drug is all kinds of great and it’s the next best thing since green grapes, still not eating more and workout is better than taking drugs that effect your brain right? Are doctors requir…

Saying that the cure for obesity is to eat less is like saying that the cure for heroin addiction is to stop using heroin. It's both clearly true, and also useless.

Well, of course if you’ve been jacking heroin for 30 years and all your veins are destroyed beyond repair it’s useless. It’ll take as much, or even more, to return back to normal.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#838

Post by jajko »

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #544
OptionOfT wrote: post #420

As someone who struggled with their weight his whole life, this medication is a god send. My wife and I cook every evening. We never eat food made in a factory. We buy raw products and spend a good amount of time every day cooking them. Every morning I wake up and go on a 5 mile hike. And still weight kept on coming on. Worse yet, I am on ADHD medication, which are amphetamines and actually make you lose weight. Yet.…

> Why do we find it acceptable to help people who struggle with alcohol abuse, or nicotine addiction, or opioid addiction, but not to help people who struggle with food abuse? "Getting fit and staying fit" is a form of social capital, because it's extremely hard and only within reach of a small portion of the population. "Being fit" is strongly aligned with "being attractive" which confers all sorts of cross-cutting…

This is funny how black & white some folks here want the world to be painted if it suits them.

You know by far the biggest benefit of doing hard workouts or doing extreme sports? Its not muscle mass nor how much they lift. Its about how it changes your personality, resilience to mental or physical suffering and ease of overcoming it. You know, hardest part of doing anything is winning the mental resistance game and just start it. Keep doing this every day in various forms for decades... A very strong resilient personality under various circumstances is almost an unavoidable result if you are putting in enough effort.

If somebody can't even stop themselves buying and paying for junk food at grocery store or has to overeat constantly otherwise getting anxious, that part of personality is missing and another, less desirable is present.

Who would you prefer to have as a close colleague you depend on, life long partner, a close dependable friend? Who do you think women would prefer subconsciously? Societies have always some form of castes, even hardcore communists have/had them, in US one of very popular is based on career/income/wealth. And this is just another dimension or caste, so let's not act like we are not humans with flaws and subjective preferences, we don't give our respect out for free.

These medication help with none of above, in fact they strongly reinforce such behavior and personality traits. But to each their own. One benefit I can see that they could start / help with movement from former to the latter, but that's rarer than people like to admit.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#839

Post by unraveller »

OptionOfT wrote: post #420

As someone who struggled with their weight his whole life, this medication is a god send. My wife and I cook every evening. We never eat food made in a factory. We buy raw products and spend a good amount of time every day cooking them. Every morning I wake up and go on a 5 mile hike. And still weight kept on coming on. Worse yet, I am on ADHD medication, which are amphetamines and actually make you lose weight. Yet.…

Anyone can list 50 no-no things they don't eat and omit the 5 types of foods they do choose that causes the most damage. Volume & variety are not to blame given most sauces are calorie dense. The issue generally is the person eating for pleasure conflicting with their stated aim to eat for weight maintenance.

If it tastes good spit it out. Countless people ready to tell you no sacrifice is needed in that domain but they have something to sell or trade.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#840

Post by wiseowise »

honkycat wrote: post #109
indiebat wrote: post #17

I don’t want this to come out insensitive or from under the rock, but why is taking a drug a novel & cool idea (all of a sudden/recently) as opposed to good old fashioned working out and not eating more than what you need? okay, this drug is all kinds of great and it’s the next best thing since green grapes, still not eating more and workout is better than taking drugs that effect your brain right? Are doctors requir…

Why doesn't everyone play piano? Why isn't every person a super athlete? Why doesn't everyone meditate 40 minutes a day? Why doesn't everyone study super hard in school and become an engineer or doctor or lawyer? The hard truth: Not everyone is capable of those things. Period. 40% of the US population is considered obese. That is a HUGE number. At a certain point, you can no longer blame individuals. There is somethi…

> Why doesn't everyone play piano? Why isn't every person a super athlete? Why doesn't everyone meditate 40 minutes a day? Why doesn't everyone study super hard in school and become an engineer or doctor or lawyer? The hard truth: Not everyone is capable of those things. Period.

We’re not talking about world class athlete. There a mile difference between world class athletes and not obese.

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