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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#141

Post by hnlmorg »

vasco wrote: post #88
even_639765 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fascism you're looking for is in the UK and France this month.

I've seen a few recent videos out of the UK that made my blood boil. Police visits to your home because of mean posts, and then off to jail in handcuffs. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Those “mean posts” were people organising violent riots that cost the country millions and targeted small business owners just for being ethnic minorities.

People shouldn’t get a free pass on organising violence and riots just because they did it online.

Edit: I don’t normally comment on the peer moderation that happens on HN but wow there are a lot of people online today that believe free speech trumps all other laws.

Seems it’s ok to destroy people’s property just so long as you arrange to do it online. /s

Perhaps someone can explain why they think this way?

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#142

Post by throwaway48540 »

AxelLuktarGott wrote: post #116
gizmo wrote: post #51

[flagged]

Do you perhaps live in the US? The EU didn't shut down any nuclear power plants. Local politicians in Germany and Sweden (and perhaps more countries) did. And they were very much elected. I don't think any technocrats would do something that stupid. The EU has elections every five years where the members of parliament are chosen. They very much answer to the public. Why would you think they don't?

The EU considered nuclear energy to not be "green" up until very recently, which directly contributed to the demise of said nuclear power plants as well as many potential projects.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#143

Post by mikrotikker »

heckelson wrote: post #132

The worst thing about this is that we the citizens have to fight this every time, but if this just passes one single time we may lose our rights on this issue forever.

Sunset clauses would be great. Every X years they have to vote to re enable the law or it becomes deactivated. 1 year of deactivation gets it wiped.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#144

Post by jdietrich »

cpursley wrote: post #124
LadyCailin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does not have free speech. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/us/pro-palestinian-... I’m not suggesting the UK is better, btw, just rather that free speech already doesn’t exist anywhere. Some of these you can criticize because they aren’t public universities, and perhaps that’s fair, and the rest you can criticize because they weren’t arrested for protesting, but rather having “illegal encampments”, but…

Yeah, but are people getting arrested in America for social media posts?

Yes, and for saying broadly the same kind of things that got people arrested in the UK.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/federal-agents-mon...

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#145

Post by hnlmorg »

cpursley wrote: post #82
even_639765 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fascism you're looking for is in the UK and France this month.

I still can’t get over that the UK arrests people over social media posts. Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech?

People were arrested in America over the Capitol riots and messages online was used as part of the evidence.

What happened in the UK was exactly the same. We had violence and riots, millions of pounds of damages, innocent small business owners targeted because of their ethnicity. It was actually a much worse scale than the Capitol riots and thus people should absolutely be held accountable for their actions.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#146

Post by glenstein »

Hunpeter wrote: post #45
sharpshadow wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orban doesn’t need to crack down on political opposition he has a strong majority in his country.[1] I guess you have a wrong opinion about Hungary and Orban because the media doesn’t like him because he is a pain in the ass for many plans of the European Union and gets bad reporting. Hungary has by the way not even 10 million residents. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-vote-orbans-...

I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent. But consider that one way Orban makes sure to maintain this - indeed significant - majority is to try to silence/discredit voices that go against his narrative. In fact, his party is spending millions of dollars in public funds to finance a continuous stream of propaganda on many channels. On top of this, t…

>I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent.

It is preposterous to concede this. Orban has destroyed the independence of media and weaponized it to support his party and spread disinformation against his opponents. He's also weaponized the tools of the state to harass the family members of his political opponents with frivolous lawsuits and exhausting legal battles.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#147

Post by surgical_fire »

cpursley wrote: post #126
pelorat wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech? Yes, USA is indeed the only country on the planet with absolute free speech. Most residents of other places doesn't actually want what the USA has.

Is that actually true or what their governments tell them that they want?

That is actually true.

Free speech should not be an absolute. No freedom in a society is absolute. Living in a society is a huge compromise.

EDIT: I am not in favor of the Chat Control proposal by the way. It is poorly thought out and will only serve to harm innocent people. True criminals will use encryption and such anyway.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#148

Post by dandanua »

mrtksn wrote: post #93
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #5

This could be abused in any number of ways and would probably make people and their precious children less safe in the long run rather than more safe. You can be sure Viktor Orban would use it to crack down on political opposition in Hungary, for example. In the wrong hands, could be used to have these precious children or their parents killed or worse. Authoritarian governments often do things, or threaten to do thi…

There are people who believe that their job is more important than anything else and that they deserve to have the "sudo tools" so they can override any protection to catch the bad people and that they are respected mature people so it is OK to grant them with these privileges, they will be careful and won't abuse it. Obviously that's bad idea and a bad practice as we know it from IT systems. Maybe their intentions a…

> There are people who believe that their job is more important than anything else and that they deserve to have the "sudo tools"

I don't care in what they believe or how they explain they need in the total control over you. In fact, it's just a slavery, and I'm sure internally they know that and they like that. For some people it's the meaning of life to achieve that kind of power over other people. Unfortunately, a lot of such people achieve this goal nowadays.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#149

Post by janice1999 »

pelorat wrote: post #120
starspangled wrote: post #78

Strange that these European utopias seem to be on the edge of collapsing into civil conflicts if the plebs are permitted to communicate with one another without government supervision.

Hitlers rise to power can be attributed to free speech, which is why saying some things, and promoting some things, will land you in prison in places like Germany.

The fascists literally murdered journalists and burned down newspapers critical of them on their rise to power. I suggest checking out this podcast on "How The Liberal Media Helped Fascism Win". The issue was not too much free speech.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#150

Post by Propelloni »

sunaookami wrote: post #31
diggan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What social credit systems are you talking about specifically? Maybe I live under a rock, but I haven't heard anything about something like that in EU or Europe.

SCHUFA for Germany. They want to get your bank payments next. If your score is bad (which can be if you live in a neighbourhood which is "bad") you can't get loans or other contracts like for mobile data.

Actually credit scorer like Schufa and similiar "pre-sorters" have been severely limited with the EuGH judgement from December 2023. Another win for the GDPR.

The new battleground is now the "essential" part of the GDPR, i.e. what pre-sorting is essential to arrive at a decision and what not. I guess we will see quite a few cases before the courts...

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