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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#71

Post by Fargren »

dijit wrote: post #17
diggan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What social credit systems are you talking about specifically? Maybe I live under a rock, but I haven't heard anything about something like that in EU or Europe.

It's inevitable to some extent. Maybe not exactly the same as China's, but the "common understanding" that your internet persona must be tied to your identity, and that this identity can be scored based on a bunch of criteria. - or that how you spend your money must be trackable and traceable. It will begin to grow out of the places that are already used this way: things like insurances, then will grow towards "secur…

This "inevitable" spiel is bad for discourse. There are absolutely ways to stop this, and even delaying should be considered is valuable for anyone who believes this is a bad end result.

It's one thing to be negative, other to act like everything is determined and resistance is futile. By saying things can't possibly be changed, we make it harder to change them.

I don't disagree with the gist of your analysis; the forces you describe exist, and they work towards surveillance. They can still be opposed and curtailed in a number of ways.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#72

Post by jonathanstrange »

speedgoose wrote: post #62
dgrr19 wrote: post #59

This is the reason a lot of europeans are choosing to leave Europe seeking refuge somewhere else more free :)

Source?

"a lot of" is totally subjective anyway, GP could use any source. Of course, some people leave the EU every year.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#74

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

zaik wrote: post #4
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #2

And it will never disappear from the agenda. Chat control is widely popular among some influential parts of the population. After the attempted terrorist attack in Vienna for the Taylor Swift concert the topic didn’t leave Austrian media. A lot of parents are in favor of this independently of terrorism because of fear of CSAM. There is an awful lot of lobbying going on and given history of EU regulation this can only…

Popular among the population or popular among ÖVP politicians?

Popular across specific but impact parts of the population (parents).

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#75

Post by abc123abc123 »

diggan wrote: post #10
2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #8

Okay, so all Western societies are bound to go surveillance state in near future, unchecked by judicial forces and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys? Or are we facing an era resembling a black mirror episode with smile…

> and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What social credit systems are you talking about specifically? Maybe I live under a rock, but I haven't heard anything about something like that in EU or Europe.

Not as bad as china yet, but you do have credit ratings, crime registers, and tracks on social media/facebook which can be mined to hang you out.

All three are regularly used in sweden to deny people jobs, services and opportunities.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#76

Post by baybal2 »

caseyy wrote: post #13
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #2

And it will never disappear from the agenda. Chat control is widely popular among some influential parts of the population. After the attempted terrorist attack in Vienna for the Taylor Swift concert the topic didn’t leave Austrian media. A lot of parents are in favor of this independently of terrorism because of fear of CSAM. There is an awful lot of lobbying going on and given history of EU regulation this can only…

On the other hand, there are EU countries like Lithuania, which have a very privacy-conscious culture, and have not had any meaningful terror attacks for nearly all their history. The last notable one was 30 years ago[0]. No one died. In Lithuania, privacy is quite meaningfully enshrined in its constitution[1]. I remember that Google StreetView faced significant regulatory challenges in simply photographing people’s…

[dead]

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#77

Post by mrtksn »

gizmo wrote: post #51

[flagged]

I wonder if this is a copypasta? Something in these lines pops up every time someone in an EU institution proposes something controversial.

That someone is usually Ylva Johansson and its quickly striken down but for some reason there's this strange narrative pushed that feels almost automated.

WTF is this stuff about EU shutting down nuclear reactors? Complete fantasy world. Are you copy pasting this from somewhere or were you made to believe in on Twitter or something?

Please write a response I'm very curious about the roots of this comment.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#79

Post by the-smug-one »

dt3ft wrote: post #68
amarcheschi wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chat you are referring to aren't encrypted, I don't see how breaking end to end encryption would affect the chat you're talking about. That's a problem that has to do with telegram governance. In telegram, group chats are not encrypted. 1:1 chats are also not encrypted if you don't start a secret chat before Now tell me, if law enforcement can just get into those group since they're not encrypted, why are not the…

The ordering process is likely handled in e2e 1:1 chat. The public and unencrypted channel is only used as advertising/entry point. The evidence of purchase is as such not accessible to the authorities.

E2E 1:1 chat is not going to disappear for the criminals simply because it becomes illegal for the common man.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#80

Post by jkaplowitz »

defamation wrote: post #26
simion314 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know Orban changed the electoral law, he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary (weird to vote for shit that does not affect you), the people in cities are not voting for him so he gets the votes from uneducated people that do not know a foreign language and get indoctrinated by the Orban controlled media. He is also super corrupt and Putin fanboy so most online English support he gets are from Ru…

You can vote outside of any country pretty much if youre a citizen of that country. US included.

Many countries do put restrictions on this. Some examples:

Until literally this year, the UK removed the right to vote after 15 years of living abroad, and Canada even used to restrict that right to just 5 years.

Even now, civilian US citizens living abroad whose intent to return to live in the US is uncertain or who don't intend to return, and Canadian citizens living abroad regardless of intent to return, are only federally guaranteed a right to vote from their last in-country address in federal elections, but often can't vote in state, provincial territorial, or local elections. This is true even if they retain significant ties to the relevant state, province, territory, or locality, like having close family there (including kids too young to vote for whom they're a legal parent), owning property there, operating a business there, or being owed a pension controlled by the relevant level of government.

And the guarantee of a right to vote from abroad in US federal elections is purely statutory, not constitutional - not to mention it has a few gaps in it, like citizens who have never lived in the US and neither of whose parents last lived in a state that allows the right to vote from abroad to descend to the next generation based on last parental residence.

Et cetera.

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