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Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

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Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#111

Post by barista »

binarycrusader wrote: post #87
pilgrim689 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"albeit with fewer features than an iPhone 4S" And that's pretty much what's happening with WP7. Windows Phone users are getting an upgrade [1], but it won't be as fully-featured as WP8. Apple just did the slick move of calling both the partial update and the full update by the same name. [1] http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-7-8-brings-wp8-ui-to-...

Except that it's not the same. You'll actually get iOS 6 on a iPhone 3GS, whereas Microsoft is backporting select features to the older Windows Phone 7 OS. That means still no native code, etc.

So would it have helped if Microsoft had been ingenious like Apple and called it Windows phone 8 but delivered fewer features instead to older devices?

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#112

Post by barista »

WiseWeasel wrote: post #69
phren0logy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 7 was well-reviewed based largely on it's UI (as far as I could tell). Microsoft has kept a lot of that, but the underpinnings are now shared with their tablet (which makes sense) and desktop OS (not sure if that makes sense, but whatever). Seems like a move that's designed to be more sustainable in the long-term by uniting their efforts. Personally, this move would make me more comfortable buying a Win8 tabl…

Until they switch directions again in a couple years, to whichever way the winds shift. I'm not quite sure if anyone's at the wheel.

Windows Phone 8 is based of windows core, the same core that is bread and butter for the company and is something synonymous with Microsoft. There is no switch from directions possible here

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#114

Post by barista »

sjwright wrote: post #62
pook1e wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm still baffled about how Microsoft is still trying to out-Apple Apple when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). I don't see how they're trying to out-Apple Apple in this case. They're releasing a mobile operating system for third party vendors to create hardware for. Remove "mobile" and this is the exact same thing they've been doing all along. > Microsoft are kings of productivity s…

> Are you forgetting that they're also still king of the consumer desktop? They're probably still the majority shareholder, but I wouldn't call them kings. And if they are kings, they're leading a dying kingdom. Have you seen the iPad sales numbers recently?

>> Have you seen the iPad sales numbers recently?

Another one living in Apple's reality distortion field.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#115

Post by falling »

notJim wrote: post #101
falling wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that matter, who is going to buy an Android 2.3 device now, since there's no reason to believe it will run Android 4.0?

I guess you're making the point that people will continue to buy it because they are mis- or uninformed?

I’m making the point that that issue alone (which I consider very serious and hindering the ecosystem) didn’t kill Android.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#116

Post by RyanMcGreal »

desigooner wrote: post #30

I get a chuckle out of reading people's views w.r.t. Microsoft. There are a good number who complain about lack of innovation & how Microsoft invests too much time in supporting legacy systems and that they should totally get rid of the CE core. Then there's the other end of the spectrum where Microsoft is stupid to stop supporting certain platforms because they're clearly not thinking about the users who use those s…

Joel Spolsky famously wrote about those competing imperatives in a 2004 essay on the API war:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

"There are two opposing forces inside Microsoft, which I will refer to, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as The Raymond Chen Camp and The MSDN Magazine Camp."

The former is obsessed with backwards compatibility, and the latter is obsessed with the Next New Thing. Spolsky's thesis was that the latter won out, to Microsoft's long-term detriment.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#117

Post by barista »

ja27 wrote: post #74
sjwright wrote: post #43

When Steve Jobs returned to Apple, he made it really clear that Apple's job wasn't to beat Microsoft. Apple then delivered on that assessment and created entirely new markets for themselves. Sadly, somehow, Microsoft went all XOR on our asses. I'm still baffled about how Microsoft is still trying to out-Apple Apple when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). Microsoft are kings of productiv…

Before Windows Phone 7 even shipped, I was talking to my Microsoftie friends and said that I thought there was a great opportunity to build a phone that had the best Microsoft enterprise (Exchange and Sharepoint) integration, good free developer tools, and a good app marketplace with better organization and discovery than Apple's. Now throw in great Skype integration and Office support and they could have a good busi…

>> doesn't have Dropbox, Pandora, and dozens of other high-profile apps Some of these apps were limited because older windows phone did not have native code support and had a limited reach. Now with shared core with windows desktop and tablet, a developer has opportunity to write for windows phone and then run it on all devices. That sounds damn attractive a proposition.

Besides the argument is losing its steam pretty fast. With already 100?K apps out there the list of apps missing is growing smaller every day and in most cases a replacement is already available.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#118

Post by untog »

betterth wrote: post #59
easyfrag wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly Microsoft just Osborned Nokia's current product line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

They didn't have to! -- what they just did was screw themselves in the branding (and that's it). They've created a new update, Windows Phone 7.8 that will rollout to current Nokia devices and other Windows Phone 7.5 devices. It will include many of the new UX features, such as the new home page, etc. But as WP8 is changed so much on a fundamental level, it makes no sense to port that to legacy hardware. They're reenv…

No. WP8 introduces an entirely new API for app developers. WP8 apps will not work on WP7 devices. That is going to have huge and painful effect for existing WP users.

EDIT: Apparently I am wrong on this.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#119

Post by barista »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #116
desigooner wrote: post #30

I get a chuckle out of reading people's views w.r.t. Microsoft. There are a good number who complain about lack of innovation & how Microsoft invests too much time in supporting legacy systems and that they should totally get rid of the CE core. Then there's the other end of the spectrum where Microsoft is stupid to stop supporting certain platforms because they're clearly not thinking about the users who use those s…

Joel Spolsky famously wrote about those competing imperatives in a 2004 essay on the API war: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html "There are two opposing forces inside Microsoft, which I will refer to, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as The Raymond Chen Camp and The MSDN Magazine Camp." The former is obsessed with backwards compatibility, and the latter is obsessed with the Next New Thing. Spolsky's thesis w…

Spolsky worked at Microsoft years ago. Not sure how relevant and current his knowledge is...

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#120

Post by untog »

simba-hiiipower wrote: post #97
cryptoz wrote: post #6

> incompatible with current devices Interesting. This may well be the right move for the long-term, but they're going to end up with a lot of angry early adopters right now. Android upgrades look nice all of a sudden.

Definitely agree about it being the right move for the long-term; Microsoft tends to have a bad habit of sacrificing performance and features for the sake of supporting old systems, glad to see this is changing. As for all us ‘early adopters’, I for one don’t mind at all. There are some features of the new OS that simply aren’t supported by current-generation WP hardware or just wouldn’t perform well on it. I’d rathe…

they’ve stated that all non-native code WP8 apps will work on WP7.

Where did they say that?

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