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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#821

Post by bankcust08385 »

kwanbix wrote: post #801
cortesoft wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…

30% is deliriously high. Make it 10% and maybe then we can talk.

It's monopolistic extortion.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#822

Post by dwaite »

frumper wrote: post #459
input_sh wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple forbids even mentioning alternative payment methods within the app.

If I click my subscription on my iOS Disney+ app, it just launches a browser to manage.

If you sign up for new service via the app, it does in-app purchasing.

After that you can maintain your account via the web.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#823

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

perfectstorm wrote: post #645
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Previously, Apple specifically prohibited charging more though AppStore for services that are available to be purchased elsewhere. I'm not in the mood to sift though current version of Apple's legalese , but I'd be surprised if they dropped this requirement, that'd be very uncharacteristic of them.

they didn't prohibit charging more for App Store purchases, they prohibited mentioning it in the app. i.e, you cannot mention something like 'purchase this in-app product for $3 cheaper on our website'.

To be more specific, previously they prohibited telling about any other ways to buy elsewhere:

"Apps and their metadata may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other thanuse in-app purchase, except as set forth ...",

And that includes sending promotional emails if said emails were gathered via app.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#824

Post by bankcust08385 »

beeboobaa3 wrote: post #666
cortesoft wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…

> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? because apple gimps their web browser capabilities & performance to incentivize developers to enter the walled garden

Apple's mobile Safari has enough capabilities to serve a mobile-like simple app for managing a subscription service.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#825

Post by bankcust08385 »

mrweasel wrote: post #795
beeboobaa3 wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? because apple gimps their web browser capabilities & performance to incentivize developers to enter the walled garden

That bullshit to be honest. Not the lack of features in Safari, that's very real, but you don't need most of it. There is nothing that Patreon needs to do that could not be done by a 15 year old browser, let alone the newest version of Safari on iOS. I can understand that developers would like to use certain feature, or that they'd make the job easier, but they are not required. Patreon isn't cutting edge web develop…

Exactly, it doesn't need native access to every bit of hardware to fulfill the needs of a simple app. If needed, Mobile Safari can do push notifications.[0]

0. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#826

Post by dwaite »

Arainach wrote: post #219
InsomniacL wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does apple allow that? I think there are rules about telling people not to use IOS method. Not sure if that would extend to content displayed in the app too from creators?

Take Apple out of the loop entirely. Why does Patreon need an app? Have users go through the website. Send them updates when people post new content. I've never used the Patreon app on either Android or iOS. I support a number of creators and I have no idea why I'd want an app. Money is taken from my account. Receipts are sent to my email. Articles from creators are sent to my email, and if they're long enough I clic…

I’ve been trying to figure this out. Just guessing since I have limited Patreon usage.

They don’t want to just be a payment middleman for creators, they want to be “sticky” like Facebook.

So they might add things like chat, media playback (with DRM), creators being able to post with notifications. Maybe you can sign up for additional private streams or even 1-on-1 sessions (like a gamer offering tutorials).

But by having an app to consume digital services, Apple says you have to provide a way to pay for services in the app (because that’s apple’s revenue model, a portion of software sales and resulting digital goods and services off of the App Store)

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#827

Post by bankcust08385 »

rtpg wrote: post #499
baby_souffle wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economics would suggest that Patreon should do away with their iOS app, focus iOS users on the web, and everyone would be ahead. Apple doesn’t let web apps do everything that native apps can do. Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill i…

In particular Patreon can host things like podcasts so has a media player. The app isn’t just about configuring billing

That's really a solved problem. As an example, Google manages to have a web version of Youtube that works on iOS mobile Safari adequately. (It's not perfect but it works.)

There doesn't seem to be anything snowflake special the Patreon iOS app needs to do that a web app cannot handle.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#828

Post by troupo »

meiraleal wrote: post #818
pjerem wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, Safari may lack some APIs, but it’s irrelevant for 95% of apps including Patreon. It’s not like Patreon would be unusable on iOS without an app.

It is baffling how some random people will come to Apple's defense from the most unimaginable angles. "Safari is lacking but should be enough for 95% of the apps". Why do we even have the App Store then? For the rest 5%?

> Why do we even have the App Store then? For the rest 5%?

No. We have AppStore for the hundreds of thousands of apps that cannot be implemented using web tech. And for hundreds of thousands of apps that people could implement using web tech, but don't want to for various reasons, both big (too many workarounds) to small (abysmal performance for the simplest tasks)

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#829

Post by ben_w »

boredpeter wrote: post #704
lapcat wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill is for. I just searched the App Store for Patreon: The top hit was an ad for Ashley Madison. Seriously. The second hit was the Patreon app. The third hit was ChatGPT for some reason. But if the Patreo…

Isn’t the whole point of the 30% apple tax to make sure their App Store isn’t full of garbage?

Not only but also; as with a real tax from a government, all the money goes into a big pot, gets mixed around, and then the expenses come out unevenly from that pot.

I'm not at all aware of where the boundary is between "that's fine" and "that's abuse of market dominance to fund uneconomical expansion".

Does anywhere have a specific "national defence" tax and another "police fund" tax etc. for each expense, rather than "income tax" and "sales tax" for each source?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#830

Post by classified »

danShumway wrote: post #389

Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…

> fairness does not exist in the market, only competition.

The first part is undoubtedly true, but competition doesn't exist here either. That Apple is getting away with their anti-competitive practices is a full-blown scandal.

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