Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

781–790 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#781

Post by johnnyanmac »

inetknght wrote: post #245
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

> As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support How long until YouTube (Google) demand "their" cut of your Patreon income? What will you do then?

I know what you are trying to do, but this is he host of an 800k channel. They already generate millions for youtube. Google will at best try to steer that channel to use Youtube's recent-ish dontation and memberships features.

No reason to disrupt money directly from someone they are paying; if they want to do it sneakily they simply change their payout rates and argue over that instead.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#782

Post by willhackett »

I’m getting extremely annoyed that I have to keep paying ~30% more than other platforms for iOS subscriptions.

I’ve already bought the device. I’m already paying for iCloud. How much money does this business really need to squeeze from me?

If I could download and install apps directly from their makers, I would. Just like I can on my Mac.

We shouldn’t let this business model continue.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#783

Post by rbits »

stahtops wrote: post #528
jjcm wrote: post #233

In my eyes the most egregious aspect of this is it’s a financial transaction between two people that they’re taking a 30% cut of. I see 30% as fine for things like IAP for digital games and such, but somehow in this lens it feels wrong. One proposal for a compromise that would feel fair: Apple gets 30% of the app creator’s take rate. IE if patreon’s take rate is 8%, Apple should get 30% of that , not 30% of the full…

Developer + Guitarist makes an iOS app and sells $10/mo subscriptions to their guitar tabs in it. Guitarist sells $10/mo subscriptions to their guitar tabs through the Patreon app. Why should these be considered any different?

What if it isn't an app, though. They're still taking a cut of it, even though they're not paying for anything related to apple. The only thing apple is doing is hosting the patreon app, not the thing being bought.

And if you think that it should be different when buying something that runs on an apple device, logically that should also apply when buying it from a computer.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#784

Post by mjhagen »

macintux wrote: post #24
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I can't understand why people think that inviting new middlemen into their transactions is acceptable. It's time to stop prostrating ourselves to these companies.

It's complicated. Apple has given me a simple way to manage many of my subscriptions, a single pane of glass, which I appreciate. I'm fine paying a little extra for that. It would be more valuable to me if Apple didn't charge too much, which turns away service providers.

Exactly, it's the percentage that's just too damn high.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#785

Post by dwaite »

rottencupcakes wrote: post #665
cortesoft wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…

When a mobile web page uses apple pay, does it also give 30% to apple? If not, what’s the difference between it and an app?

Apple Pay and in-app purchase are different.

Apple Pay is a percentage paid by the bank, not the merchant.

In-app purchase is for an app being used to buy digital goods and services consumed in-app. The agreement for publishing apps says that you will give Apple a cut, and upfront purchase price and in-app purchases are how they collect it.

You can’t use in-app purchases to say order dinner to be delivered.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#787

Post by pjerem »

Nekorosu wrote: post #750
cortesoft wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…

Heh. I didn't even know there was a Patreon app. There is an issue though. A lot of people (not me) use phone as their main computing device. And Apple is well known for keeping web app experience subpar compared to native app experience. Safari is lagging behind all the other browsers regarding modern APIs support. Bugs are not getting patched for years. At the same time other web rendering engines are not allowed o…

Heh, Safari may lack some APIs, but it’s irrelevant for 95% of apps including Patreon.

It’s not like Patreon would be unusable on iOS without an app.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#788

Post by dwaite »

baby_souffle wrote: post #491
brookst wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? I'll bite, kind of. People get emotional about particular companies so let's abstract them away: is it possible for a second-tier distributor to bring more value to a first-tier distributor than the first-tier brings to suppliers? Looking at it that…

> The economics would suggest that Patreon should do away with their iOS app, focus iOS users on the web, and everyone would be ahead. Apple doesn’t let web apps do everything that native apps can do. Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill i…

Are you implying a significant portion of the population who stop paying things like their water bill when they find no hits within the iOS App Store?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#789

Post by tebbers »

rtpg wrote: post #499
baby_souffle wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economics would suggest that Patreon should do away with their iOS app, focus iOS users on the web, and everyone would be ahead. Apple doesn’t let web apps do everything that native apps can do. Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill i…

In particular Patreon can host things like podcasts so has a media player. The app isn’t just about configuring billing

So Patreon will need to become a reader app like Spotify/Kindle then that can do all this offline but you cannot subscribe or pay in the app.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#790

Post by johnnyanmac »

jzl wrote: post #671
egypturnash wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a creator on the per-creation model and I got a very unambiguously worded email from Patreon this morning basically saying "if we want to be on the iOS store, Apple requires that we remove all billing methods that are not compatible with their payment method, and yours is not; in November 2025, you will be switched to the one billing method that Apple allows us to still have. If you would like to start earlier g…

Right but just because they said it doesn’t mean they’re not playing fast and loose with the messaging. I’ve never heard of a single app where the off-app billing affected the inclusion of the app in the store. I mean maybe it’s true but that seems like it would be breaking new ground in App Store rules. I suspect Patreon is playing semantics here but would be happy to see evidence otherwise. To be clear, I’m taking…

> I’ve never heard of a single app where the off-app billing affected the inclusion of the app in the store.

most apps don't do payments like this to begin with.

>To be clear, I’m taking about the case where Patreon could decide to show no billing details or links at all in the App Store, just like eg Audible.

To be frank, I don't think Patreon has the same market force as Audible. Audible can definitely appeal to apple and make a deal that others don't get. Maybe Patreon did desire some of this, but I do put the blame on Apple. This is hardly the first time they arbiriarily played hardball.

Post reply on HN