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Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

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Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#61

Post by skipkey »

Spivak wrote: post #32
ayhanfuat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a big fight on Twitter last month because of a comment he made 3 years ago ( https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814 ). I think that's closely related.

This is such a weird thread, sure it's a nit but grammatically a person of unknown sex should be either "he or she" or "they." And the latter is by far the preferred form by English writers regardless of political affiliation. It didn't become a political thing until Andreas made it political. It would have taken two seconds to be like "+1 Good catch man, merged."

It could be an age thing. When I was taught grammar 40 plus years ago, for someone of indeterminate sex, “he” was taught as always appropriate, “he or she” was a somewhat clunky alternative that was situationally appropriate where you were stressing the gender neutrality, and “they” was just simply bad grammar which would get you bad marks. I’m honestly not sure when that changed.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#62

Post by Decabytes »

littlestymaar wrote: post #45
Decabytes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This huge blog post goes over some of the challenges of using Rust. https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/ For the community I'll pluck out this paragraph > That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you get good enough things wil…

It's not specific to Rust at all, I remember hearing the same kind of talks when learning Java because I found OOP confusing. And in fact most people saying that are right: most of the time people complain about stuff because they haven't internalized how it's suppose to work (as I was). Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of valid criticism of Rust or Java (and OOP in particular), but at the same time in practice m…

> It's not specific to Rust at all, I remember hearing the same kind of talks when learning Java because I found OOP confusing.

You're right, but that doesn't excuse it. And most languages don't have this as their first bullet point in their code of conduct

>We are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all, regardless of level of experience, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, nationality, or other similar characteristic.

What is the point of a code of conduct if you can't rally the community around the first part of the first bullet point. If people are still experiencing toxicity on the level of other communities that don't have a code of conduct, then it's not working and the leaders of the Rust community should do something about it.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#63

Post by lawn »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #47

I know Andreas is a prolific coder, but this seems weird to have a pretty functional (but far from complete) browser written in C++ and then casually say, eh, "We are going to rewrite it in another language" in the same way one might say "We've decided to change the branding logo"? I know that is a run-on sentence, but I need to get my exercise.

Actually, moving to a memory-safe language should be a very high priority for developing a browser and the sooner they do that the better.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#65

Post by pjmlp »

Decabytes wrote: post #48

I totally get using Swift in this context considering their heavy emphasis on C++. From my personal experience, Swift still feels like the early days of Open source .NET/Mono. You will definitely experience the growing pains of being an early adopter of the language. The fact that JetBrains killed AppCode in Dec of 2022 7 years after Swift went Open Source is telling to me that getting the traction outside of the App…

C# has a uphill battle against those that don't believe in systems programming languages with GC, despite several graphical workstations have been done in the past in such languages.

Unfortunately freebie UNIX, and security was yet decades away to be relevant to governmental regulators, thus they never managed to gain enough mindshare to keep going.

Additionally even with all the .NET team efforts, the technology remains mostly relevant to Microsoft shops.

I seldom see RFPs from UNIX first culture companies, that quote .NET as possible delivery technology.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#66

Post by steeve »

Affric wrote: post #7

============================== Andreas Kling @awesomekling · 44m My general thoughts on Rust: - Excellent for short-lived programs that transform input A to output B - Clunky for long-lived programs that maintain large complex object graphs - Really impressive ecosystem - Toxic community ==============================

The last one is so very true

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#67

Post by the__alchemist »

Affric wrote: post #7

============================== Andreas Kling @awesomekling · 44m My general thoughts on Rust: - Excellent for short-lived programs that transform input A to output B - Clunky for long-lived programs that maintain large complex object graphs - Really impressive ecosystem - Toxic community ==============================

Interesting re complex projects. Compared to other langs I've used, rust gives me more confidence in maintaining and refactoring complex projects, maintaining state etc. I think this is due to the strict type checks, the helpful compile errors, and the ownership system. Maybe also due to the robustness of what I call struct-and-enum-oriented programming.

I have plenty of my own beefs with rust that I won't go into here, but... it comes out on top for complex projects.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#68

Post by LoganDark »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #24
LoganDark wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say all the Rust community is toxic. Then again, I'm not sure which Rust community he's referring to, I'm sure there are some toxic ones out there.

There was a big fight on Twitter last month because of a comment he made 3 years ago ( https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814 ). I think that's closely related.

[flagged]

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#69

Post by pjmlp »

LoganDark wrote: post #13
Affric wrote: post #7

============================== Andreas Kling @awesomekling · 44m My general thoughts on Rust: - Excellent for short-lived programs that transform input A to output B - Clunky for long-lived programs that maintain large complex object graphs - Really impressive ecosystem - Toxic community ==============================

I wouldn't say all the Rust community is toxic. Then again, I'm not sure which Rust community he's referring to, I'm sure there are some toxic ones out there.

Basically the one that gave origin to Rust Evangelism Strike Force meme.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#70

Post by stephc_int13 »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #47

I know Andreas is a prolific coder, but this seems weird to have a pretty functional (but far from complete) browser written in C++ and then casually say, eh, "We are going to rewrite it in another language" in the same way one might say "We've decided to change the branding logo"? I know that is a run-on sentence, but I need to get my exercise.

It is just like when a video game team decide to switch or rewrite the game-engine mid-course. A huge red flag. Almost always kills the project or make it so late that it becomes irrelevant.

C++ is not a perfect language, but it works, and they have experts on the team, what they are trying to achieve is difficult enough.

Well, RIP Ladybird, I was hopeful about this project, this seriously makes me sad.

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