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Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

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Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#21

Post by pas »

BoredPositron wrote: post #10
Affric wrote: post #7

============================== Andreas Kling @awesomekling · 44m My general thoughts on Rust: - Excellent for short-lived programs that transform input A to output B - Clunky for long-lived programs that maintain large complex object graphs - Really impressive ecosystem - Toxic community ==============================

He's not wrong.

can you please substantiate in which points and how right he is? do you have experience with complex object graphs in Rust, direct or indirect experience about the community? thanks!

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#22

Post by ironmagma »

Sakos wrote: post #18
LoganDark wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say all the Rust community is toxic. Then again, I'm not sure which Rust community he's referring to, I'm sure there are some toxic ones out there.

It doesn't matter if only a portion is toxic, because that portion can easily poison the well all on their own for everybody.

Especially if that portion is in the official nonprofit associated with the language.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#23

Post by mkl »

ezfe wrote: post #6
peppermint_gum wrote: post #2

One thing I don't understand about Swift is why it uses a private fork of LLVM. Why can't they upstream whatever changes they need?

I’ve just read the swift build guide and there’s no sign of a closed-source version of LLVM. What are you talking about?

peppermint_gum didn't mention a closed-source version of LLVM either. "Private" just means "their own" here.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#24

Post by ayhanfuat »

LoganDark wrote: post #13
Affric wrote: post #7

============================== Andreas Kling @awesomekling · 44m My general thoughts on Rust: - Excellent for short-lived programs that transform input A to output B - Clunky for long-lived programs that maintain large complex object graphs - Really impressive ecosystem - Toxic community ==============================

I wouldn't say all the Rust community is toxic. Then again, I'm not sure which Rust community he's referring to, I'm sure there are some toxic ones out there.

There was a big fight on Twitter last month because of a comment he made 3 years ago (https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814). I think that's closely related.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#25

Post by GeekyBear »

peppermint_gum wrote: post #2

One thing I don't understand about Swift is why it uses a private fork of LLVM. Why can't they upstream whatever changes they need?

> Today there are a few non-trivial differences from LLVM, but we are actively working on either upstreaming or reverting those differences

https://github.com/swiftlang/llvm-project

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#26

Post by rescripting »

lawn wrote: post #12

> Support for non-Apple platforms is also improving, as is the support for other, LSP-based development environments. Improving, as in ready now or still far in the future? What does the current state of Swift look like for Linux and Windows? And how well does the LSP server function today?

Usable now for sure. I’ve been doing Swift development in VS Code which uses the LSP under the hood and it pretty much does what I expect an editor to do.

Both the VS Code extension and the LSP are open source and seem pretty active, so hopefully they’ll get even better over time.

The package ecosystem does feel sparse, especially coming from doing Node development.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#28

Post by neonsunset »

It is unfortunate that Ladybird did not choose C#, being another high-level-adjacent C family language with strong systems programming capabilities crucial in browser development.

It has smaller AOT binary size, faster application code performance and much bigger ecosystem of GUI libraries and native GUI library bindings (everything you have in C and C++ you pretty much have in C#) which can be used with very low overhead. Not to mention better cross-platform tools and build system.

With that said, I do like and respect Swift, and am curious to see what Ladybird team will do with it.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#29

Post by anon-3988 »

Affric wrote: post #7

============================== Andreas Kling @awesomekling · 44m My general thoughts on Rust: - Excellent for short-lived programs that transform input A to output B - Clunky for long-lived programs that maintain large complex object graphs - Really impressive ecosystem - Toxic community ==============================

> - Clunky for long-lived programs that maintain large complex object graphs

Interesting observation...I have the exact opposite experience. Rust is especially amazing for long last program because you spend twice as much time developing it and then forget about it for the rest of your lives until you have to change something. And just by browsing the code, a flood of contexts come in because its expressed in the language fairly well (This function returns Option because ...., this function is generic over Read because ...)

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