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For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

theglobeandmail.com

141–150 of 227 posts

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please cite the raw numbers you used to make your claims, and their sources. I don't doubt that on a per capita basis Canadians emit more than Chinese do; furthermore, China is the source of many of the goods that western nations consume, and so they're producing emissions "for" the western nations in a sort of de facto shell game. However, China has no interest in giving its manufacturing base "back" to the west, an…

> and so they're producing emissions "for" the western nations in a sort of de facto shell game. Then the solution is to ban Chinese imports or tax them to a level that it's no longer economically viable to import them. Problem "solved," right?

I mean, it depends on what problem you're trying to solve. If you want to dramatically skyrocket the prices of consumer goods, reduce every American's individual buying power, tank the stock market, crater everyone's retirement accounts, and destabilize the current world economic order, then that would be a terrible move.

I kind of want all that to happen, though, so I think it's a good move. I don't like living in a nation that is able to consume at a functionally unlimited level for very little national sacrifice or engagement in manufacturing and production. If manufacturing is inherently pollution-heavy, then it would be healthy for Americans, Canadians, etc. to actually bear the consequences of pollution in their own countries and then decide as nations whether or not to sustain the current levels of production, or curtail their consumption habits properly.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#142

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

Canada emits more Co2 per capita than China today, by 1.5x. But Co2 doesn't only count in 'last years'. It counts as a cumulative effect. The Co2 damage of Canada per capita is way beyond that of China, cumulatively. In cumulative terms, China has emitted 'only' 7.5 times as much Canada despite having 35x the population. In other words, Canada's per capita cumulative emissions are about 4.5x those of China. And that'…

I’m not sure you can say China’s total is 7.5x Canada’s total and say Canada has caused more damage. It might well be true that per capita is higher however you seem to be comparing apples to oranges here.

And as others have mentioned sources for numbers greatly help the collective conversation.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#143
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ratios matter little to the climate. Total volumes do. When you build your infrastructure from scratch, it makes sense not to go for XIX century technologies.

I agree. It would be much better if wealthy nations subsidized clean energy technology for developing countries so that they can leapfrog the fossil fuel stage.

[deleted]

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#144
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems straightforward but it isn't. Alberta is about twice the size of Germany, 50% larger than California and has a meager population of 4.3 million spread out across that area.With a latitude that ranges from 48' to 60' and a wide variety of geography there's a range of availability in solar and wind. Alberta politics is also a factor. Alberta is a complete aberration in North American democracy in that more or…

>> more or less one party have been in power there for over 50 years. you know we had a majority left-leaning (NDP) government The province splits pretty predictably between Calgary, Edmonton and Rural.

The bigger problem with the comment is that said party threw in the towel in 2020. How they managed to enact something last year from the dead is a head scratcher.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#145
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those unaware, China and India do NOT like getting their power from coal. They've both had decades now of abysmal smog and pollution that literally (like, statistically trackable) kills people every year, including people otherwise productive in society. China is absolutely dumping the price of solar panels. A fully renewable energy China is one that is harder for Western countries to sanction, has more prestige…

As far as I am aware, Texas offsets the volatility of renewable with carbon based energy. Those renewable are not viable in a world with no carbon based energy. https://grid-analytics.ece.utexas.edu/chart/fuel-type-genera...

Yes, they mostly use carbon energy to offset volatility. That doesn't mean that there aren't other viable ways to do so.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you basically ignored the point about them buying Russian oil/gas, thus enabling the Russian war. But yes, I agree that China makes things. India doesn't really have that excuse for using coal.

This is complete nonsense. India is among the world’s five largest economies and is continuing to grow. Part of a growing economy is falling poverty and growing electrical demand. how exactly do you propose India meet the growing electric demands of her residents? The Russian gas and oil story is more pragmatism than evil intent. One part of your comment is accurate - India’s exports are tiny relative to its populati…

Indeed, one of the more nonsensical threads i've seen. Alberta farts rainbows because it doesn't make anything and nobody lives there. USA imports oil from KSA enabling KSA to do whatever the hell KSA feels like doing, all the while periodically starting wars and bombing the more stubborn oil suppliers like Libya and Iraq into submission. India and China similarly use whatever energy they can get their hands on, especially China so it can produce half-a-trillion dollars worth of cheap consumer goods every year to supply the said Americans (and even Albertans too). The ignorance is amazing.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#147

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

Canada emits more Co2 per capita than China today, by 1.5x. But Co2 doesn't only count in 'last years'. It counts as a cumulative effect. The Co2 damage of Canada per capita is way beyond that of China, cumulatively. In cumulative terms, China has emitted 'only' 7.5 times as much Canada despite having 35x the population. In other words, Canada's per capita cumulative emissions are about 4.5x those of China. And that'…

Unless you're not a big fan of productions - things like food, you can't compare CO2 emissions alone. It all comes down to cost-benefit.

The goal is the maximum production per unit of CO2 - for every unit of CO2 you maximize what is produced from it.

Yes, the US produces 13.49% of all global CO2, but it also produces 25.22% of all output.

China produces 31% of all CO2 emissions, but only 17% of all production.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#148
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those unaware, China and India do NOT like getting their power from coal. They've both had decades now of abysmal smog and pollution that literally (like, statistically trackable) kills people every year, including people otherwise productive in society. China is absolutely dumping the price of solar panels. A fully renewable energy China is one that is harder for Western countries to sanction, has more prestige…

As far as I am aware, Texas offsets the volatility of renewable with carbon based energy. Those renewable are not viable in a world with no carbon based energy. https://grid-analytics.ece.utexas.edu/chart/fuel-type-genera...

Texas would be a lot less vulnerable to such volatility if they got out of their own way and connected their grid properly to either (or both) of America's east and west grids.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would that be true if Canada had 1 billion people?

IIRC most people's carbon emissions come from transportation, electricity, heat. My guess is the efficiency of scale at ~40M is within spitting distance of what it would be at 1B. So it ought to scale linearly, for the most part?

A lot of it comes from consumption, material goods, food ect as well.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#150
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wind correlation drops exponentially as a function of distance. By what principle? I'm just curious, first time I'm hearing this.

They just mean if you have geographical diversity, it helps with the availability of renewables. For example, if wind is in 5 different locations across Alberta (for sake of example), you're less likely to run into issues with losing it all at once like you would if all your wind came from a single area and the wind stopped blowing there or dropped to a very low value.

Yeah but the downside to that in a place the size of Alberta is that you need to run electrical infrastructure that can handle the load of 4.3 million people across a 1000km distance.
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