Live data from Hacker News

For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

theglobeandmail.com

121–130 of 227 posts

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian it’s hard for me to be upset given we still emit far more carbon per capita than China or India.

But would that be true if Canada had 1 billion people?

BC electricity is completely hydroelectric. And they encourage homes to go all electric with no gas.

If BC's population went up by a factor of 1.1B/40M = 27.5x, most likely the hydroelectric resources in the province would become insufficient and BC would have to switch to alternate forms of electric power. Maybe that is solar+wind+nuclear, but maybe it's just gas and coal.

Please note that in Canada, electricity, heat, and transport emissions dwarf those from all other sectors [1].

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-emissions-by-sector?t...

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#122
Note: even though this is published by a large and pretty well respected newspaper it's an op-ed piece from a left-leaning environmental organization (which should be obvious if you read it). Dropping coal is pretty different from dropping fossil fuels, especially right now when natural gas is dirt cheap. It's also debatable if Alberta currently needs any more solar or wind; what we definitely need is storage for these generative sources. The other components of industrial use and transportation are probably more effective targets for big wins than getting gas out of the electricity grid.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#123
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India and China Oof. Before we start pointing fingers, over 50% of China's energy consumption is manufacturing, and a significant chunk of that manufacturing is western countries outsourcing their manufacturing needs, i.e. claiming to be coal-free while really just burning the coal elsewhere and then blaming the landowner. If you want to truly be coal-free, don't just pay for it to be built in Canada for your woode…

I mean, you basically ignored the point about them buying Russian oil/gas, thus enabling the Russian war. But yes, I agree that China makes things. India doesn't really have that excuse for using coal.

India's government is dirt poor in comparison to China's government. Clean energy is expensive.

Both governments are actually very pro-clean-energy and more willing to deploy it, given the money, than a certain two ~80-year-old farts that take turns every 4 years playing stupid politics games and picking fights.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#124

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

As an Indian immigrant to Canada, it is frustrating to see people believe it's a choice. I also hear a lot of hate for the carbon tax and rebate program in Canada. I support the program, even though it costs me money.

> someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money

Which means Canada has money. India is much poorer on a per-capita basis. They can become wealthy by developing their economy. India can't spend as much per-capita on clean energy as Canada or any other wealthy nation.

India has much more to lose from climate change compared to Canada. The heatwaves are already horrific, and many cities have water supply problems so drought due to climate change could spell disaster.

The air quality in most Indian cities is terrible. No one is burning coal for fun.

Gasoline is CA$1.81/l in Mumbai, in a country with a fraction of the per-capita income of Canada. Cars are much smaller on average and most people take public transport.

The electricity grid isn't as reliable as Canada and of course most people don't live in houses. It's mostly apartments, often with no assigned parking. Despite that I saw many electric cars and scooters on my last trip, even in small towns. I don't know how they charge. But I began to question why the US or Canada can't build enough charging for apartment-dwellers.

The "choice" India and China are making is no choice at all. They can either develop their economies or languish in poverty. Poverty means less food, less medical care, less education. It means lower life expectancy, higher infant and maternal mortality, an overall lower quality of life. Staying poor means when climate change gets worse, they'll have less money to mitigate it.

If you want developing countries to decrease their carbon emissions, invest in cheaper clean energy. Support programs and policies that give developing countries subsidies on clean energy technologies.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#125

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

Canada emits more Co2 per capita than China today, by 1.5x.

But Co2 doesn't only count in 'last years'. It counts as a cumulative effect. The Co2 damage of Canada per capita is way beyond that of China, cumulatively.

In cumulative terms, China has emitted 'only' 7.5 times as much Canada despite having 35x the population. In other words, Canada's per capita cumulative emissions are about 4.5x those of China.

And that's a lot. It means Canada has damaged way more, and should have a bigger burden to reduce future damage, or undo damage already done.

Generally yes it's always frustrating to see any country keep emitting Co2. But Canada is a worse offender, both in the past, as well as now, and that's a pretty sad record for one of the richest countries in the world which also happens to be the country with probably the biggest per-capita natural renewable resources of all time. (land for wind and solar, as well as insane hydro).

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're curious, you can actually see the real-time stats for what's going on in Alberta: http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServle... . There's lots of solar and wind installed but wind right now isn't producing much at all. Solar's doing decent though!

Honest question: Is it clear that wind really could not produce more electricity right now? Depending on the way producers are chosen and the net is "congested" the wind farms might just not be allowed to contribute.

>> the wind farms might just not be allowed to contribute.

Alberta uses a bid system where everyone who bids under the price that (based on demand) ends up getting set, gets to participate and get paid. Because renewable is tough to store, they almost always bid zero to make sure it gets included. The same thing happens for the renewable portion of integrated providers; they bid low on the renewable to make sure they're included, and high on the variable fossil fuels (i.e. gas can be turned off or brought on line) to drive up the price. It's a complicated system with lots of opportunities for manipulation, but renewable tends to be prioritized for participation because it's hard to store for later.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#127
post #50

ElectricityMaps zone CA-AB: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/CA-AB?wind=false&solar=... Total fossil gas generation capacity is ~12.7GW. Seems straightforward to replace with solar, wind, batteries, and interconnects with neighboring grids. Wind and Solar Potential resource: https://www.pembina.org/pub/wind-solar-alberta

It seems straightforward but it isn't. Alberta is about twice the size of Germany, 50% larger than California and has a meager population of 4.3 million spread out across that area.With a latitude that ranges from 48' to 60' and a wide variety of geography there's a range of availability in solar and wind. Alberta politics is also a factor. Alberta is a complete aberration in North American democracy in that more or…

>> more or less one party have been in power there for over 50 years.

you know we had a majority left-leaning (NDP) government The province splits pretty predictably between Calgary, Edmonton and Rural.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#128

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

Canada (and US) has no leg to stand on because domestic emissions reduction is offset by simply choosing to be increasingly large net crude exporters after domestic use. At the end of the day, Canada is trending to enable more net fossil fuel use, whereas PRC is trending to reduce net fossil fuel (coal used for peaking not baseload) and via renewable exports that reduce demand for fossil.

As Canadian, the only disapointment is influence ops against Canadian fossil industry has stalled development so much for so long that we're not a larger fossil exporter and reaping in benefits of current geopolitical turmoil. EU could have been buying overpriced Canadian oil + lng.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#129

Note: even though this is published by a large and pretty well respected newspaper it's an op-ed piece from a left-leaning environmental organization (which should be obvious if you read it). Dropping coal is pretty different from dropping fossil fuels, especially right now when natural gas is dirt cheap. It's also debatable if Alberta currently needs any more solar or wind; what we definitely need is storage for the…

Due to its abundant wind & solar, Alberta could easily get to ~70% renewable generation without any storage. So until Alberta hits that 70% mark, investing in a dollar on wind or solar generation will provide far more fiscal and decarbonization return than investing that dollar in storage.

Similar, investing a dollar in wind & solar will pay itself back very quickly. Investing that dollar into transport or industrial decarbonization will have a much longer return.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#130

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

So gaining wealth by burning coal by US or Europe was fine back then and now you want to ban developing country to achive wealth in same way?
Post reply on HN