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For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

theglobeandmail.com

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Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#131

Post by [deleted] »

dheera wrote: post #123
chollida1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you basically ignored the point about them buying Russian oil/gas, thus enabling the Russian war. But yes, I agree that China makes things. India doesn't really have that excuse for using coal.

India's government is dirt poor in comparison to China's government. Clean energy is expensive. Both governments are actually very pro-clean-energy and more willing to deploy it, given the money, than a certain two ~80-year-old farts that take turns every 4 years playing stupid politics games and picking fights.

[deleted]

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#132

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #115
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The times they are a-changing, but we have a particularly regressive government at the moment that is actively blocking renewable production. The unfortunate bit about having the most sun is that during winter we still don't get much of it. It seems to me we need as much storage as we do production.

Winter is not an issue for solar because solar panel efficiency is better when the panel is cooler. A panel blazing away in Florida is actually losing quite a bit of efficiency because of how hot the panel is; much farther north even with less light, the panels can produce more.

But it is an issue when Calgary only sees 8 hours of daylight in the deepest depths of winter.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#133

Post by cm2187 »

NoLinkToMe wrote: post #125
chollida1 wrote: post #74

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

Canada emits more Co2 per capita than China today, by 1.5x. But Co2 doesn't only count in 'last years'. It counts as a cumulative effect. The Co2 damage of Canada per capita is way beyond that of China, cumulatively. In cumulative terms, China has emitted 'only' 7.5 times as much Canada despite having 35x the population. In other words, Canada's per capita cumulative emissions are about 4.5x those of China. And that'…

Ratios matter little to the climate. Total volumes do. When you build your infrastructure from scratch, it makes sense not to go for XIX century technologies.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#134

Post by tonyarkles »

generic92034 wrote: post #93
tonyarkles wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're curious, you can actually see the real-time stats for what's going on in Alberta: http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServle... . There's lots of solar and wind installed but wind right now isn't producing much at all. Solar's doing decent though!

Honest question: Is it clear that wind really could not produce more electricity right now? Depending on the way producers are chosen and the net is "congested" the wind farms might just not be allowed to contribute.

https://imgur.com/a/CD8Q5zJ

The area west of Edmonton and Red Deer where it’s more like 5-6kt (still not particularly windy) is in the Rocky Mountains and would be pretty challenging to build wind turbines in.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#135

Post by eldaisfish »

chollida1 wrote: post #120
dheera wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India and China Oof. Before we start pointing fingers, over 50% of China's energy consumption is manufacturing, and a significant chunk of that manufacturing is western countries outsourcing their manufacturing needs, i.e. claiming to be coal-free while really just burning the coal elsewhere and then blaming the landowner. If you want to truly be coal-free, don't just pay for it to be built in Canada for your woode…

I mean, you basically ignored the point about them buying Russian oil/gas, thus enabling the Russian war. But yes, I agree that China makes things. India doesn't really have that excuse for using coal.

This is complete nonsense. India is among the world’s five largest economies and is continuing to grow. Part of a growing economy is falling poverty and growing electrical demand.

how exactly do you propose India meet the growing electric demands of her residents?

The Russian gas and oil story is more pragmatism than evil intent.

One part of your comment is accurate - India’s exports are tiny relative to its population and economic size.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#136

Post by quacked »

NoLinkToMe wrote: post #125
chollida1 wrote: post #74

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

Canada emits more Co2 per capita than China today, by 1.5x. But Co2 doesn't only count in 'last years'. It counts as a cumulative effect. The Co2 damage of Canada per capita is way beyond that of China, cumulatively. In cumulative terms, China has emitted 'only' 7.5 times as much Canada despite having 35x the population. In other words, Canada's per capita cumulative emissions are about 4.5x those of China. And that'…

Please cite the raw numbers you used to make your claims, and their sources.

I don't doubt that on a per capita basis Canadians emit more than Chinese do; furthermore, China is the source of many of the goods that western nations consume, and so they're producing emissions "for" the western nations in a sort of de facto shell game.

However, China has no interest in giving its manufacturing base "back" to the west, and does not take emissions reduction seriously. It is a deceptive claim that Canada is "worse than China"; China is out-emitting Canada, doesn't take emissions reduction seriously, and plans to continue to out-emit Canada into the future.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#137

Post by akira2501 »

quacked wrote: post #136
NoLinkToMe wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada emits more Co2 per capita than China today, by 1.5x. But Co2 doesn't only count in 'last years'. It counts as a cumulative effect. The Co2 damage of Canada per capita is way beyond that of China, cumulatively. In cumulative terms, China has emitted 'only' 7.5 times as much Canada despite having 35x the population. In other words, Canada's per capita cumulative emissions are about 4.5x those of China. And that'…

Please cite the raw numbers you used to make your claims, and their sources. I don't doubt that on a per capita basis Canadians emit more than Chinese do; furthermore, China is the source of many of the goods that western nations consume, and so they're producing emissions "for" the western nations in a sort of de facto shell game. However, China has no interest in giving its manufacturing base "back" to the west, an…

> and so they're producing emissions "for" the western nations in a sort of de facto shell game.

Then the solution is to ban Chinese imports or tax them to a level that it's no longer economically viable to import them.

Problem "solved," right?

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#138

Post by jogjayr »

cm2187 wrote: post #133
NoLinkToMe wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada emits more Co2 per capita than China today, by 1.5x. But Co2 doesn't only count in 'last years'. It counts as a cumulative effect. The Co2 damage of Canada per capita is way beyond that of China, cumulatively. In cumulative terms, China has emitted 'only' 7.5 times as much Canada despite having 35x the population. In other words, Canada's per capita cumulative emissions are about 4.5x those of China. And that'…

Ratios matter little to the climate. Total volumes do. When you build your infrastructure from scratch, it makes sense not to go for XIX century technologies.

I agree. It would be much better if wealthy nations subsidized clean energy technology for developing countries so that they can leapfrog the fossil fuel stage.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#139

Post by cm2187 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #91
bryanlarsen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that China's coal usage was basically flat in 2023 and expected to decline in 2024. China's coal capacity is increasing dramatically, but they're increasingly using their coal plants as peaker plants rather than for base production.

For those unaware, China and India do NOT like getting their power from coal. They've both had decades now of abysmal smog and pollution that literally (like, statistically trackable) kills people every year, including people otherwise productive in society. China is absolutely dumping the price of solar panels. A fully renewable energy China is one that is harder for Western countries to sanction, has more prestige…

As far as I am aware, Texas offsets the volatility of renewable with carbon based energy. Those renewable are not viable in a world with no carbon based energy.

https://grid-analytics.ece.utexas.edu/chart/fuel-type-genera...

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#140

Post by matthewdgreen »

chollida1 wrote: post #74

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

>India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage.

China is building an unbelievable amount of renewables and nuclear, more than the rest of the world combined. Like every other part of the world, they're backstopping these variable power sources with fossil generation -- mainly by building modern coal power plants that can be spun down when renewable generation is high. They've also developed a framework to pay coal plants not to generate. And of course they're leading the world on the deployment and pricing of battery storage, pumped hydro and HVDC grid upgrades.

I'm posting this because your conclusion ("China has said FU" to the world) is almost the polar opposite of what's actually happening. If we survive the climate crisis, it's going to be because of what China is doing with renewable buildouts and manufacturing.

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