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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#541

Post by leereeves »

wolpoli wrote: post #536
leereeves wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel left Gaza in 2005 But they maintained a land, air, and sea blockade of the region, controlling water, food, power, trade, and immigration. And the region remained under continuous threat of the Israeli military returning. That's not self governing.

> But they maintained a land, air, and sea blockade of the region, controlling water, food, power, trade, and immigration. And the region remained under continuous threat of the Israeli military returning. That's not self governing. The key is that Gaza can be "self-governing" even with the above restrictions. What they lack is "sovereignty".

There are various definitions and degrees of self-governing, to be sure.

But any definition that doesn't include the right to import food and medical supplies without Israeli permission is just a lie.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#542

Post by Retric »

Levitz wrote: post #531
Retric wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s incorrect. There’s zero US laws that make it illegal to boycott Israel. Open a carwash in Texas and you can put up big posers saying you’re boycotting Israel and the state isn’t going to do crap. There are state laws that prohibit state agencies from contracting such companies, but that’s a different question and only really applies to a small percentage of companies. If you disagree try and post full text of…

Boycotting Israel is illegal for any company that works with state agencies. It's way more restrictive, yes. It's still surreal to me.

The distinction might seem subtle, but even then it’s not illegal.

Also it’s not every contract between companies and the state. Texas uses 10+ employees companies and 100,000+$ contracts as the minimum threshold before language must be added to the contract during the terms of the contract.

But after signing such a contract the company is still only bound by a contract. Breaking contracts happens all the time it’s not illegal. Excluding Fraud etc it becomes a civil rather than a criminal matter.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#543

Post by cjk2 »

CommanderData wrote: post #497
cjk2 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An exercise with war casualty stats you can do is look at previous wars and look at the variation in estimates in body counts for each side. Then factor that into the news you are reading it. End game is there has never been a credible body count from even a small scale war. So to claim anyone is right here on either side is probably selective bias on your part. At best when the dust has figuratively and literally se…

For the record I didn't verify the deaths, I looked at information release in past conflicts for the last 10 or so years *. "MoH statistics have also been verified by Human Rights Watch and used by the United States Department of State in past conflicts and as recently as March 2023, despite US President Joe Biden questioning those numbers without evidence." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/14/has-the-un-really-…

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#544

Post by sillyfluke »

dmix wrote: post #486
Metacelsus wrote: post #13

This was related to OpenAI announcing that they had shut down several covert influence campaigns using ChatGPT-generated social media posts. https://openai.com/index/disrupting-deceptive-uses-of-AI-by-...

> As of May 2024, these campaigns do not appear to have meaningfully increased their audience engagement or reach as a result of our services. Just like I've predicted many times on HN. Text generation is low on the list of things needed to successfully engage in automated spam. Social media is built on reputation, not who can write generic believable text the quickest. And funny enough the ex-OpenAI people (mostly H…

In a way, I find your comment unintentionally hilarious. Sure, this may actually be true. Consider the source, however. Congratulating yourself by quoting the tobacco company's own research of (the lack of) adverse effects of tobacco seems a tad ill-conceived. The talk of reputation makes it doubly so, since on this topic Sam Altman or any official OpenAI post has no credibility whatsoever.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#545

Post by nsguy »

CommanderData wrote: post #497
cjk2 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An exercise with war casualty stats you can do is look at previous wars and look at the variation in estimates in body counts for each side. Then factor that into the news you are reading it. End game is there has never been a credible body count from even a small scale war. So to claim anyone is right here on either side is probably selective bias on your part. At best when the dust has figuratively and literally se…

For the record I didn't verify the deaths, I looked at information release in past conflicts for the last 10 or so years *. "MoH statistics have also been verified by Human Rights Watch and used by the United States Department of State in past conflicts and as recently as March 2023, despite US President Joe Biden questioning those numbers without evidence." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/14/has-the-un-really-…

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#546

Post by nsguy »

issafram wrote: post #460
imzadi wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because anti-Semitism is used to derail any conversation about Israel. If you criticize Israel, you're accused of being an anti-Semite, and actual anti-Semites flood the conversation with actual anti-Semitism that immediately shuts everything down.

Also, people ignore that Palestinians are Semites as well.

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#547

Post by nsguy »

School-Cotton wrote: post #462
lenerdenator wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General lack of countries with something even vaguely resembling representative government in the Middle East. Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry, but when you remember that the "stable" countries in the region are all more-or-less absolute monarchies, it becomes obvious why the US is willing to at least work with Israel.

Iraq and Lebanon both more closely "vaguely resemble" representative government than Israel does. For all their problems, at least all the people they rule over are allowed to be citizens and vote.

Iraq and Lebanon are far from free and democratic countries.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/iraq/freedom-world/2024 https://freedomhouse.org/country/lebanon/freedom-world/2024 https://freedomhouse.org/country/israel/freedom-world/2024

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#548

Post by School-Cotton »

nsguy wrote: post #547
School-Cotton wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq and Lebanon both more closely "vaguely resemble" representative government than Israel does. For all their problems, at least all the people they rule over are allowed to be citizens and vote.

Iraq and Lebanon are far from free and democratic countries. https://freedomhouse.org/country/iraq/freedom-world/2024 https://freedomhouse.org/country/lebanon/freedom-world/2024 https://freedomhouse.org/country/israel/freedom-world/2024

That does not contradict my point.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#549

Post by ajross »

nerdjon wrote: post #521
ajross wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was exactly my point. The use of "propaganda" by nerdjon really just means "an opinion I disagree with".

That is quite a simplistic view. Generally, Propaganda is used to sway opinion, get action, or similar when people may not be inclined a certain way on their own. Ask yourself this: if there was not opposition to what Israel is doing right now, would they have made these billboards. Most likely no. Would Rosie the Riveter happen if there was not a need for Woman in the workforce during the war? Could keep giving exam…

> sway opinion, get action, or similar when people may not be inclined a certain way on their own.

This is tiresome and seems like it's in bad faith. Once more: that's just a definition for "argument". You can apply it to "propaganda" if you insist, but I can only repeat that this is not the way others interpret it.

You don't go around calling your friends propagandists when they try to sway your opinion, so don't do it here just because you dislike seeing billboards by Jewish advocacy groups.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#550

Post by idunnoman1222 »

lenerdenator wrote: post #148
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry There have been over 100 Arabs in the Israeli parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Kn...

Good for them. But if you're Arab Israeli, you don't have the same slate of rights and representation that Jewish Israelis have. See: freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip prior to October 7th.

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