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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#521

Post by nerdjon »

ajross wrote: post #452
pvg wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like, are flyers for a protest "propaganda"? Is grafitti propaganda? They easily can be. Same with opinion broadcasting. It's not a matter of some strict definition, just whether you prefer a negative connotation with "propaganda" and how you feel about the thing being propagandized given that the negative connotation is the most common English usage.

That was exactly my point. The use of "propaganda" by nerdjon really just means "an opinion I disagree with".

That is quite a simplistic view.

Generally, Propaganda is used to sway opinion, get action, or similar when people may not be inclined a certain way on their own.

Ask yourself this: if there was not opposition to what Israel is doing right now, would they have made these billboards. Most likely no.

Would Rosie the Riveter happen if there was not a need for Woman in the workforce during the war?

Could keep giving examples, but you get the idea.

There are plenty of examples out there of established propaganda that isn't misleading or negative. It depends on the message they are trying to send and the action they are looking for.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#522

Post by StockHuman »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #479
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in general what strategy do you need? Take over, destroy the military infra and prevent smuggling. That's all that is needed. Gaza is thousand years back, it will never recover. It is not a threat anymore in any meaningful way. Impressively amoral post, but this is insanity. (1) Israel doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is not self-sufficient. (2) There's something monstrous about keeping 2M people herded up in a cl…

Is it? Pragmatically speaking, who is going to make it end in tears? Nobody in the region really wants a war with Israel: the Arab countries got their fill of it and Iran sure doesn't want to get into an actual war. And if anyone gets any big ideas, there's always Uncle Sam (and Uncle Sam's Western allies; who, btw, include Turkey). I understand that people want to see things put right, but we must understand what wo…

US support, extraordinarily stalwart as it is, has shown its first cracks. Western allies are considerably less religiously motivated, or defense-industrial-linkage motivated, and can’t be counted on in the same way. Recent ICC news can be read as an indicator of prevailing winds.

The US is not above dropping allies when politically convenient, and as Israel burns its public image (or seeks geopolitical independence), both parties stateside can entertain anti-Zionism.

Watch what was previously far-left/right become normalized as legitimate considerations regarding US support of Israel. That Iran would entertain its recent long-range strike should tell of regional estimations of how likely the US would be to intervene, and then extrapolate from there.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#523

Post by myth_drannon »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #407
myth_drannon wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears the government has no clear strategy and lacks the famous "the day after" plan. But from IDF side, it took two weeks to take over the whole border with Egypt. Rafah is empty and by the end of the month, it will be Israeli. So yes, they spent months not doing anything while the government was trying to secure hostage release and Biden was screaming do not touch Rafah. But in general what strategy do you nee…

> But in general what strategy do you need? Take over, destroy the military infra and prevent smuggling. That's all that is needed. Gaza is thousand years back, it will never recover. It is not a threat anymore in any meaningful way. Impressively amoral post, but this is insanity. (1) Israel doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is not self-sufficient. (2) There's something monstrous about keeping 2M people herded up in a cl…

[flagged]

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#524

Post by Retric »

asadotzler wrote: post #286
Retric wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how this much power over the US was ever deemed acceptable? Free speech sometimes applies to things you don’t like. There’s pro and anti propaganda for just about any foreign interest. Some of it’s just more subtle such as recommendations on TikTok. Ukraine had really obvious pro Ukraine requests for military aid and images of destruction, but quite a bit of pro Russia propaganda was more subtle…

Like the kind of free speech you get when Israel's lobby drafts and helps pass laws that making boycotts of Israel illegal?

That’s incorrect. There’s zero US laws that make it illegal to boycott Israel.

Open a carwash in Texas and you can put up big posers saying you’re boycotting Israel and the state isn’t going to do crap. There are state laws that prohibit state agencies from contracting such companies, but that’s a different question and only really applies to a small percentage of companies.

If you disagree try and post full text of the actual legislation it’s completely clear what’s going on.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#525

Post by Levitz »

nsguy wrote: post #379
nerdjon wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the focus on Israel here? That is the what the article is about and there is something going in involving Israel. I can't find the article I read a while ago with a graph showing their massive increase in spending, but according to a few articles AIPAC plans to spend $100Million this year. As far as how to distinguish between them. I really don't think this should be complicated. Criticizing a government is not…

This might be a useful reference here: https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitio... "Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic." ... "Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other…

This is grasping at straws at an insane degree. If you compare the international blowback the US gets to any other country you are going to have a bad time because it has an extremely unique position in the world.

And even if that wasn't the case, if you argue that pointing at how Israel does godawful stuff is antisemitic, all you are achieving is I no longer care about antisemitism because I'd have to be morally repugnant to justify actions on such basis. Because if you argue that antisemitism is needed to criticize the systematic abuse of a population then my logical conclusion is that antisemitism is sometimes the right thing to do.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#526

Post by mupuff1234 »

drpossum wrote: post #378
mupuff1234 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but just want to dispute the claim that NYTimes is somehow Israeli propaganda - I think it's clearly not.

Spouting off someone's talking points without verification makes you propaganda. It's just a question on if it's due to an agenda or incompetence. It's one of those.

Propaganda has to have intent, by definition.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#527

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

dang wrote: post #36
erellsworth wrote: post #18

Why is this flagged? What rule does it violate?

Posts on all sides of this topic get flagged quickly (by users), and mods turn off the flags on limited occasions—mostly when some significant new information arises and there's at least some chance of a substantive discussion about it. It's pretty important that most stories about this conflict and similar current affairs get flagged, because otherwise HN's front page would consist of little else, and that's not the…

Where I can view all of the posts that had flags turned off?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#528

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

jules-jules wrote: post #115
dang wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posts on all sides of this topic get flagged quickly (by users), and mods turn off the flags on limited occasions—mostly when some significant new information arises and there's at least some chance of a substantive discussion about it. It's pretty important that most stories about this conflict and similar current affairs get flagged, because otherwise HN's front page would consist of little else, and that's not the…

Thank you dang. Doing the lords work.

Lord Sauron, obviously :P

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#529

Post by [deleted] »

leereeves wrote: post #465
endtime wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Israel left Gaza in 2005 But they maintained a land, air, and sea blockade of the region, controlling water, food, power, trade, and immigration. And the region remained under continuous threat of the Israeli military returning. That's not self governing.

[deleted]

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#530

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #399
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But why does it seem like everyone here calls everything propaganda all of the time? I think those who overuse the term ought to explain it in their own words.

Propaganda is media designed to manipulate your opinion, without going to the trouble of rationally convincing you to change your mind. And yeh, most of what we see day to day is propaganda. If anything, everyone's under-using that word.

How does propaganda differ from advertisement?
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