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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#781

Post by _heimdall »

guappa wrote: post #655
mrtksn wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…

It's a bit ironic how we are constantly reminded that china isn't a democracy because they have censorship, while we are free and democratic and don't have censorship (except we do). Italy is passing laws to be able to block websites within 30 minutes, without any oversight from any judge. (more details here, link in italian https://stop-piracy-shield.it/ )

Freedom and democracy are luxuries of peacetime, unfortunately.

Fear does terrible things to many people. When the guns come out, leaders that previously were the most staunch supporters of freedom will file them away and promise to reinstate them when the war is "won".

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#782

Post by raxxorraxor »

edanm wrote: post #606
runarberg wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genocide has a precise definition and has been codified in international law. I believe this internationally recognized definition mirrors what most people mean when they use the term. It does not necessitate the systemic killing of every person of a certain genetic identity. Genocide is outlined in the Genocide convention from 1948[1]. It is short so I’ll give you the whole definition here: > In the present Conventi…

I think it's fairly clear that given this definition (which is the same one I always reference), Israel isn't committing a genocide. If you do think Israel is committing a genocide, I think one thing you have to do is demonstrate how what Israel is doing is different from any other war (e.g. war on ISIS, Afghanistan, Iraq as obvious examples). The statute makes the difference pretty clear - it's the intent to kill so…

Agreed and on moral grounds the war of Israel is far more defensible than these examples because they are directly subjected to the aggressor. That doesn't allow killings with impunity of course, but that is far from what Israel is doing.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#783

Post by medo-bear »

mrtksn wrote: post #690
medo-bear wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think the EU is at war

Is taking sides in a war though. That’s why the Russian outlets push talking points. This can affect the public support on war efforts issues, which is fine only before shooting start because when no one is shooting arguments(which can be fair ones or designed to achieve something like withholding weapons deliveries) can be addressed in timely manner. Whatever problems a website or an app is causing can be solved thr…

But banning Russian propaganda surely is an indication of weakness. Banning RT to me also signals that Russia got good at playing the media game, which until recently was largely the playground of US and UK. There is a reason that dry Tass is not banned but snazzy RT is.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#784

Post by thunky »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #241
afavour wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the face of double-standard world efforts to legitimize the genocidal, racist, homophobic, and misogynistic Hamas regime. I ask this question very genuinely: what world efforts are seeking to legitimize Hamas? I have seen a great many pro-Palestinian perspectives but have not seen anything pro- Hamas beyond fringe kooks. As for double standard… I think the reason you see the double standard is precisely because…

> what world efforts are seeking to legitimize Hamas? No real efforts. But a surprising number of young people don't believe Israel has a right to exist.

> people don't believe Israel has a right to exist.

Israel was created in 1948. If that didn't happen and Israel didn't exist today, imagine how different things would be today for better or worse.

Maybe the people you're talking about believe it would have been better. Is that such a radical belief?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#785

Post by megous »

cjk2 wrote: post #176

Just a point about Al Jazeera that is worth mentioning. There are two Al Jazeeras. One which is presented to Western audiences and one which is presented to Middle-Eastern audiences. The media and articles are politically aligned in each region. Don't assume what you read in the US/UK/wherever is the same as over there. In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further upr…

Israel blocked English version, too. So clearly they don't aggree with that content either. :)

Anyway, you know which news outlets also have local and international versions with different content? BBC, CNN, ...

Also western democracies allowed "Letter to the American People" to be published in full. Also a messaging from an active terror group with significant impact at the time, more significant than Oct 7.

So yeah, countries allow that stuff.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#786

Post by donalhunt »

sweetheart wrote: post #763
gravescale wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong. This is a real Police and Crimes Commissioner and is not a character from the Thick of It: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xlcWVXHv_As

I genuinely cannot tell if this is real still. Like, I want to believe you, but this person is basically doing the best Michael Scott impersonation I’ve ever seen.

Seems to be real. "Ann Force 1" was given to a charity in 2015.

Source: https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/amp/ann-force-one-v...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#787

Post by trimethylpurine »

cies wrote: post #682
benja123 wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israeli here - I just checked and I can still access the site in both English and Arabic. My guess is you won’t actually see the site being blocked.

After rt.com et al were blocked in the EU they also kept working for a few more week/months before I had to use a mirror/VPN to read the new paper of "the enemy". Side note: I though being able to read the news of the enemy was testimony to the moral high ground of a "modern free and democratic society". No more moral high ground if you are trying to shape the perception of the public with censorship.

Do you believe that in a society where money is required to make an advertisement, an alternative path to advertising should be violence?

I wouldn't call that a moral high ground.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#788

Post by victorbjorklund »

no_exit wrote: post #245
verdverm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unlikely that reliable numbers will come out of Gaza with the media blackout and two sides who both want to present information "favorably" At least until the war has subsided and independent orgs can gain access.

Gaza Health Ministry numbers are a reliable floor, as confirmed by numerous organizations like the US State Department. The real count probably above 100k dead so far.

Dont you mean Hamas numbers are a reliable cieling? Why would Hamas undersestimate the number of dead Hamas members/civilians?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#789

Post by raxxorraxor »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #564
mrtksn wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…

> That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do I'm in awe. I'm pro-censorship myself as a general principle (though not in this obviously unjustifiable instance of it), but please be coherent. How come the current semi-popular opinion on HN happens to be pro-censorship, when HN community is against censorship in every other situation?

Certain topics, this is one example, draw a different crowd than other HN articles.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#790

Post by patall »

liopleurodon wrote: post #338
patall wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples for Europe blocking Russia? Because all I have seen is DNS providers omitting certain sites (i.e RT), but their apps still work (plus URLs when using other DNS). An nothing of that coming from the nation states as all seems to be due to the activities of private companies doing these things.

It's part of the EU sanctions, EU ISPs are required to block certain Russian sites. But they didn't specify how, that's left up to the countries to figure out afaik. But as you say, some of the what has been done barely qualifies. Here's my personal experience with this: Germany does exactly what you describe, the bare minimum to say "we're blocking" --- DNS omitting certain sites. Spain is doing deep packet inspecti…

Thanks, though that specifically why I am questioning that it is the EU in this case. Because rt.com is reachable in Sweden just fine, including sub-sites. Which, to me, says that it must be national sanctions, or at minimum, national lists of what to 'block'.
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