Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am just pointing out that Israel isn't planning on agreeing to a ceasefire anytime soon. They'll probably need to have new elections.
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Do you remember what the word "root" means?
Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
641–650 of 1001 posts
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#642Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't speak Arabic so I can't really judge that; I'm sure there's tons of stuff I'd find distasteful, but being distasteful or even inflammatory (within some limits of reason) should not be outlawed. All I can do is go by articles such as this, which don't really seem to cite the same "firehose of bullshit"-type stuff. Also note that the Israeli government spends tons of money to push Israeli narratives and viewpoi…
In most of the world outside of the United States, there are laws that relate to the concept of a "defensive democracy". For example the laws that outlaw display of swastikas in Germany are contradictory with freedom of speech but are aimed at denying a democracy being exploited by extreme groups (see ww2). The discussion here is about the actions of Israel versus Al Jazeera, not a possibility of banning Al Jazeera i…
It is not my impression that Al Jazeera can reasonably be compared to Nazi Germany, but okay...
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#643Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who was only familiar with Al Jazeera's English reporting (and thought it was pretty good), it was eye opening to check out their Arabic website translated into a language I speak. Maybe Google Translate was erasing some nuance, but I saw a huge number of controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts.
When did Israel make controversial, disputed or downright false claims illegal? The current prime minister and the IDF make controversial, disputed and downright false claims as well.
The oldest example I can find was passed by the Knesset in July of 1986. I'm not very familiar with Israeli laws so it's totally possible I'm missing prior examples from before 1986... That's just what I found after a few minutes of search engine and wikipedia research, limited to English pages.
My understanding is that the degree to which "freedom of speech" is protected in the USA (a country I'm more familiar with) is actually pretty rare globally
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#644How big a share of Palestinian media consumption does Al Jazeera have? As in, do the residents of Gaza treat it as the main news source? The reason for asking is because a poll[0] of Palestinians says “90% believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive. Only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas.” So is it Al Jaze…
> The reason for asking is because a poll[0] of Palestinians says “90% believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive. Only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas.”
I think they have more pressing matters on their mind than getting informed at the moment, such as trying not to starve, finding dead relatives in the rubble of destroyed apartments, and similar things.
Moreover, I think the people of Palestine might be a bit biased against Israel. And I don't think that's an information issue, I think it's a completely natural response to Israel killing tens of thousands of civilian, 70% of whom women and children.
I think if you ask Ukrainian civilians what they think of Russians you'll hear some falsehoods and unreasonable stuff too. That's a completely natural response, and the Ukrainian media is not to be blamed for that.
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#645Earlier quoted context omitted.
Genocide has a precise definition and has been codified in international law. I believe this internationally recognized definition mirrors what most people mean when they use the term. It does not necessitate the systemic killing of every person of a certain genetic identity. Genocide is outlined in the Genocide convention from 1948[1]. It is short so I’ll give you the whole definition here: > In the present Conventi…
I think it's fairly clear that given this definition (which is the same one I always reference), Israel isn't committing a genocide. If you do think Israel is committing a genocide, I think one thing you have to do is demonstrate how what Israel is doing is different from any other war (e.g. war on ISIS, Afghanistan, Iraq as obvious examples). The statute makes the difference pretty clear - it's the intent to kill so…
The two wrongs make a right argument.
There isn't a single item on that definition that hasn't been reported and evidenced on numerous times by the limited press coverage. To bring the conversation back to the article.
The argument that it could kill more is ridiculous. Israel is clearly killing as many as it believes the international community will let it, without becoming a pariah state. Deliberately, and indiscriminate killing or maiming of 5% of a population is not trivial.
I find it difficult to classify what is happening as a war. The disparity in power, control and access to military and other means is to disparate. Like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc it's transparent one side is doing it because they can, and without regard for anything but their own satisfaction and revenge.
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#646"and block its websites." So this keeps Israelis from reading Al Jazeera. Now that's new. Israel started Internet censorship in 2017.[1] Initially it was limited to "terror group websites, online illegal gambling, prostitution services, hard drug sales". At the time, "due to warnings from rights groups that the law poses a slippery slope toward additional censorship, the final version of the legislation dictates that…
Israeli here - I just checked and I can still access the site in both English and Arabic. My guess is you won’t actually see the site being blocked.
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#647I'm not a fan of Al Jazeera myself but this sets a very bad precedent. Israel is winning the war but they are being very short sighted among the decisions they are making.
I wouldn't classify murdering 30k+ civilians (15k+ children), dropping bombs on entire families, being caught[0] executing civilians with drones in plain view, having israeli holocaust scholars and survivors describing israel's actions as "textbook-case of genocide"[1][2], the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state, as "winning", but you do you. [0] "Note that this footage permits no room for "it was a m…
When your neighbors are trying to ethnically cleanse you, surviving is winning.
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#648I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel. Once you’ve established that the government can unilaterally ban a voice for reasons of “national security” you’ve essentially given them a free pass. As Americans living post-9/11 will know, “national security” is a deliberately elastic term that can cover anything required in the moment.
The EU has banned many Russian and Belarussian news sources since the invasion of Ukraine. The USA seems to not have followed through (as far as I know - as Russian news sites seem to be available).
>The EU has banned many Russian and Belarussian news sources since the invasion of Ukraine.
I read Clark's Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RI9PMM/>) right after hearing about YouTube shutting down Russian state media channels. I was surprised to learn in the book of the extent of the freedom of the press in late 18th-century Prussia. A British visitor wrote that people were as free to speak as back home, citing a work that was very critical of the king in the context of Poland. During the Napoleonic wars, despite the existential threat to Prussia from France, at least four newspapers that celebrated Revolutionary France as the next step in human freedom were allowed to publish.
It's always preferable to counter propaganda with free speech. Even liars deserve the opportunity to speak. This is especially true when there is no formally declared war between US/Europe outside Ukraine and Russia.
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#649Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…
> That's correct and IMHO [censorship is] the right thing to do when shooting begins it's been a common observation since aischylos that the truth is the first casualty of war it's quite different to assert that the truth should be the first casualty of war, which seems to be your position
RT is not truth though. When a country is fighting for its very survival against a genocidal foe, I'm not about to start clutching my pearls that they've banned their genocidal foe's propaganda. Seems reasonable to me.
Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices
#650Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is at least the biggest insult to your adult citizens to say to them, "you are not allowed to read this because you are too stupid."
I don’t think it’s that at all, it’s about controlling the narrative for your advantage. You might be lying as well, be doing horrible things and you don’t want the people you control to know that or to think that way. It’s not a noble thing, it’s a war weapon.
I dont think the EU is at war