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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#381

Post by Drew_ »

mirsadm wrote: post #349
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #144

I think this article is overstating the effect that Apple's walls have on lock-in effect. I'm an Android user, and a little less than a year ago I actually bought an iPhone, specifically due to Apple's iMessage lock-in (nearly all of my friends have iPhones, and the especially broken group messaging between iMessage and Android was the primary driver of my desire to get an iPhone). Except the problem was that, after…

All of Google's services are also on iOS, often the apps work better than on Android. There is no barrier to switching.

I'm a recent convert to the iPhone and I'd say Google's apps are definitely worse on iOS. Many of them are missing features, buggy or plain weird. Big ones being Search, Home, Gmail, Calendar and Photos. Overall I get the sense that iOS apps are an after thought at Google.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#382

Post by starttoaster »

Terretta wrote: post #378
starttoaster wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accurate. Businesses that show consistent good will towards their users often just haven't become successful enough to afford to exploit you yet. Pointing out that Apple only really cares about extracting your money is mostly an admission that they've found we will let them do it.

Or, Apple gives you your time back, and for that, you are happy to trade a bit more money and a lot less time, to be a customer. Apple makes hardware enabled platform experiences for end users who don't want to tweak and people who value their own time more than money. That's a big reason Apple causes so much resentment -- not everyone can value time over money. It's also resented by devs who don't understand or valu…

Or, the two things we’ve said about Apple aren’t mutually exclusive. I’m talking about how they behave, you’re talking about the philosophy for the products they create. I like and consume Apple products too, and my willingness to buy their updated model every few years is how they know they have me right where they want me.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#383

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

growse wrote: post #362
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two huge innovations of the iPhone were decent web browsing (I had a Treo, it sucked for the web) and the multitouch screen with corresponding gestures. Nobody else was doing anything like this yet, and I remember this being the thing that blew everyone away at the keynote.

Multi-touch was such an enabler, because it meant you could do an on-screen keyboard properly, which meant you could replace the physical keyboard with more screen . I remember everyone scoffing at the "lol you can't type on it" dramatically missing this point.

Also the keyboard wasn't.stuck with QWERTY! You could swap keyboards. You could have big numbers when typing phone numbers, and letters when texting. You could type Californian street names correctly! Write math! Etc.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#384

Post by endemic »

Repulsion9513 wrote: post #369
threeseed wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the phrase means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

Embrace: include HTML Extend: add ActiveX Yeah, it is.

Could users still access functionality of pages with ActiveX content, albeit in a “degraded” state?

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#385

Post by justwool »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #236
pompino wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing Apple cares about is Apple making more money. they will gladly gouge the end User so that their executives can line their pockets. there is nobody here you can actually ”trust”.

Such a bad take, please go back to Reddit where you might be congratulated for garden variety “everyone else is greedy and evil, but I can see through them and speak truth to power”. People here have higher standards on their takes. If all Apple cared about is making money, would they have spent upwards of 10 Billion+ on an Apple Car only to cancel it later. At its height, Vision Pro R&D cost 2 billion per quarter, y…

Wait you call making a bad bet not caring about money?

I’m so confused, your reasoning is just dumb.

Please explain how putting money into R/D has anything to do with gouging customers?

Is it because companies that tend to be more purely oriented on extracting profits often don’t put money into product R/D? So then therefore companies that do are not price gouging customers?

So how much money a company spends on researching a product suddenly makes that product have any real value? And if that value turns out less than profitable you think the business is basically a charity?

Like yes I’ll gladly go back to Reddit to be rid of this faux expert bullshit y’all got going on.

Only worth 2 billion?

I find it amazing how so many adults are still just children with more numbers.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#386

Post by Ylpertnodi »

mrangle wrote: post #329

I like the Walled Garden. I want the Walled Garden. Almost everyone wants the Walled Garden. Even Android users should want the Walled Garden, as a true second option. The Walled garden is fantastic. When everything just works, it's fantastic. Apple's product quality is without consumer equal. The quality a bright-light in a world otherwise brimming with hardware junk and a software wild west market. The antitrust is…

>Almost everyone wants the Walled Garden. Even Android users should want the Walled Garden, as a true second option.

I guess i, and most people i know, should be happy over not being included in 'almost everyone'.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#387

Post by leptons »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #363
leptons wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, whataboutism isn't a valid defense with the DOJ. Go read the many counts the DOJ is suing Apple for. It's extensive and points to a systemic problem at Apple stifling competition in many ways. Microsoft lost their antitrust case and they weren't doing 1/2 the shady stuff Apple is doing.

You’re right. They make Android bubbles green. The horror.

They also forbid competition in many ways - forcing Safari browser no matter what browser you install, Chrome is Safari, Firefox is Safari, Opera is Safari. That's far worse than what Microsoft did to get sued by simply bundling IE with Windows. No, Apple forbids any other browser but their browser, and this is done for anti-competitive reasons. That's just one example. It's a lot more than "Android bubbles green". But you're a fanboi and a troll, and you don't really care what the DOJ lawsuit says, that much is clear.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#388

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

simonask wrote: post #359
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #144

I think this article is overstating the effect that Apple's walls have on lock-in effect. I'm an Android user, and a little less than a year ago I actually bought an iPhone, specifically due to Apple's iMessage lock-in (nearly all of my friends have iPhones, and the especially broken group messaging between iMessage and Android was the primary driver of my desire to get an iPhone). Except the problem was that, after…

As a European, it's baffling to me that your friend group wouldn't simply switch to a messaging app with good group chat support. WhatsApp, Signal, Messenger (FB) - these are all great alternatives that are extremely popular, and all have more features than iMessage. For example, in Scandinavia the current marker leader on all platforms is Facebook Messenger, despite this also being one of the only markets where iOS…

I don't really disagree with anything you're saying, except to say that, yes, the situation in the US is completely different than Europe, and nearly every time I comment about this situation, everyone who says they don't understand is European.

The fact of the matter is that in the US, especially for specific socioeconomic groups, iOS is by far the dominant platform, and for many people since iMessage is the default, their definition of "texting" is simply iMessage. You state, "it's baffling to me that your friend group wouldn't simply switch to a messaging app with good group chat support" - except that completely ignores network effects, and many times I am literally the only person on Android. If I'm, say, going on a vacation with friends and literally 10 of them are on iOS and I'm the only one on Android, it's a losing battle to try to convince the other 9 to switch, especially since nearly all of their other contacts are on iOS/iMessage. A restaurant in Austin, TX, famous for their funny signs, even had a joke about it: https://www.instagram.com/p/CwLKeGRLieb

The reason the situation in Europe is different is primarily due to 2 factors:

1. iOS was never as dominant in the EU as the US

2. Perhaps more importantly, what is often forgotten is that in the EU and elsewhere about ~15 years ago, per-SMS rates from telecoms were egregiously expensive, while in the US by that time they were mostly unlimited with a flat monthly rate. So there was never a huge drive to get off SMS in the US (this is why WhatsApp first took off much faster outside the US than within it). In a pretty brilliant "Embrace/Extend/Extinguish" move, iMessage initially simply because the default SMS app on iPhone. Users never really "picked" any messaging app, they just continued to use the "texting app" that had always been on their phones.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#389

Post by philistine »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #300
nerdix wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people forget that the iPhone was not the first smart phone. I was downloading apps, checking email, and sending IMs over the AIM network with Verichat on my Treo 650 well before the iPhone was a thing.

The two huge innovations of the iPhone were decent web browsing (I had a Treo, it sucked for the web) and the multitouch screen with corresponding gestures. Nobody else was doing anything like this yet, and I remember this being the thing that blew everyone away at the keynote.

Yeah. By our own metrics, the first iPhone wasn’t even a smartphone because it couldn’t load apps.

Even back then, people were exactly clear on those two things being the true revolution of the iPhone.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#390

Post by BenFranklin100 »

leptons wrote: post #387
BenFranklin100 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. They make Android bubbles green. The horror.

They also forbid competition in many ways - forcing Safari browser no matter what browser you install, Chrome is Safari, Firefox is Safari, Opera is Safari. That's far worse than what Microsoft did to get sued by simply bundling IE with Windows. No, Apple forbids any other browser but their browser, and this is done for anti-competitive reasons. That's just one example . It's a lot more than "Android bubbles green".…

Oh go switch to Android. Until very recently, iOS had a minority share of the market and still does worldwide. It’s in no way comparable to Microsoft 25 years ago which then had an overwhelming market position. Were you one of those guys who spelled Microsoft with a ‘$’ btw?
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