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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#271

Post by Teever »

INGSOCIALITE wrote: post #116
Teever wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. They obviously have no motivation to do the correct thing, so the solution is government regulation. We live in a world where every landline telephone can dial another with no trickery or fuckery from your phone manufacturer. That is a good thing. We should extend that functionally to smartphones.

what "correct thing"? i can text people who use android phones just fine. TBH this all boils down to the ridiculous blue / green bubble thing. that's the ONLY difference in texting between devices. i honestly have no clue why apple would be regulated in any way over this!

Because theyre soon going to be deemed an illegal monopoly and regulated as such.

This is probably one of the things the government will be regulating.

But like you said, if it's a minor thing then Apple will have no problem complying and it's no big deal.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#272

Post by inkyoto »

talldayo wrote: post #100
Jtsummers wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple didn't replace SMS. It is still there on every iPhone, and they expanded SMS reach for iPhone users who have other devices like iPad and macOs systems. In what universe do you exist where SMS was removed?

HN tells me that there's only one more step left after embracing and extending. Apple didn't make some mistake putting iMessage and SMS in the same app, they want you reliant on their service so that SMS seems (rightfully) poor by comparison. There would be nothing wrong with that if Apple wasn't equally as miserly with that power as the carriers they want to valiantly protest against. I'm no fan of cell carriers eit…

> HN tells me that there's only one more step left after embracing and extending.

It is a wild projection, a common one amongst members of this esteemed congregation.

Removing SMS supports invalidates and revokes the 3G/4G/5G network compliance with standards and certification, whether you are Apple or an invisible fifth column. It also voids the right to display the very same 3G/4G/5G sign in the upper part of the smartphone screen and opens a very expensive path to litigation from all sorts of patent holders from the 3/4/5G patent pool.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#273

Post by nerdix »

cesarb wrote: post #200
doctorpangloss wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Mobile phones had apps distributed by wherever, you could go get them on a CD from Bestbuy if you wanted. > I was working in mobile games at the time and ended up working with Google on the Play Store launch, among other things. Well, mobile games are distributed via ads, not the "stores." I don't know. This distribution, network effects story. It's sort of, whatever. People were using chat apps then, and peo…

> Windows Mobile phones had apps distributed by wherever, you could go get them on a CD from Bestbuy if you wanted. This was also the case for Palm smartphones. Since they were an amalgam of a Palm PDA and a cell phone, they kept the app model of Palm PDAs. IIRC, you could even transfer apps from one Palm PDA to another through their infrared port, or through Bluetooth if both were fancy ones.

I think a lot of people forget that the iPhone was not the first smart phone. I was downloading apps, checking email, and sending IMs over the AIM network with Verichat on my Treo 650 well before the iPhone was a thing.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#274

Post by lolinder »

jayd16 wrote: post #263
tammer wrote: post #218

I’ve come full circle on this but I now think native applications on smartphones was a mistake. There is no technological reason why applications can’t be distributed as PWA packages similar to the days prior to the App Store. This would serve two important functions: 1. Remove most if not all distribution monopoly concerns 2. Create application standards that function nearly identically across the myriad of screen s…

There are quite few technical reasons people pony up the app store overhead instead of make a PWA. Performance, UX, lack of standards. PWAs are popular but how often do you see comments bemoaning the use of web stacks and pining for native apps?

> but how often do you see comments bemoaning the use of web stacks and pining for native apps

On HN, all the time, but it's not something that regular users notice or care about. It's not that native apps can't be on some level superior, but most people can't tell the difference and frankly, most native apps I've had to use are just as bad on all performance metrics as Slack and company.

What people are really complaining about is that most apps are made as quickly and cheaply as possible, and those lazy apps are disproportionately web apps because web is cheap and easy.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#275

Post by nerdix »

noodlesUK wrote: post #203
jonp888 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, what? Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. It's perfectly reasonable for the default setting of a phone to forbid sideloading apps. And anyone who doesn't want to can leave it that way. That's the 'option of safety'.

Until such time as a big player like Epic or Facebook decides that the only way you’re getting their apps is by using a store they control and can bypass all permission controls on. When that happens it’s going to become 2000’s browser toolbars all over again

You don't have to use their apps. I never understood this argument. Why would you even want to use the apps of companies that you don't trust?

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#276

Post by Dalewyn »

jmholla wrote: post #227
jbr1ckl3y wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not simple but it is doable: 1. Format a flash drive with two partitions 2. Burn the Windows installer ISO to the first partition 3. Download all the drivers to the second partition 4. Flash the BIOS with the latest version 5. Ensure you are NOT connected to the Internet and boot flash drive 6. Install Windows, disallow the metrics they let you opt-out 7. Creating a local account works because offline 8. Install…

Good guide. But holy hell.

It's a needlessly esoteric, bad guide. The first three steps can be simplified into "Obtain an installation media.", and the fourth step of updating your BIOS has nothing to do with Windows specifically.

Creating a local account is basic sense (no, not common sense; we aren't common people), and not connecting to the internet during install is recommended but not a hard requirement.

Installing drivers while avoiding their bloatware is, again, basic sense.

Disabling "Microsoft Consumer Experience" does nothing as far as I've experienced (and it shouldn't, the setting is only effective on Windows 11 Enterprise and Education); I never modify that setting myself.

On the other hand, I turn off Automatic Updates (automatic Windows Update) and Microsoft Store's ability to automatically download and update programs via the Group Policies. This is probably what you want if Disney+ keeps bothering you.

This all said, if you're getting pestered by third-party crapware you are probably using Windows 11 Home. Just pay up for a Professional license and save your time and nerves. The cheaper price of Home licenses is offset by third-party crapware.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#277

Post by wetpaws »

beardyw wrote: post #53
da768 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Android becomes the only platform with a worldwide reach, no one's going to bother writing apps for iOS anymore.

Yes and no. iPhone only has about 25% of the world market, but developers are keen to develop for them because users are more willing to pay for apps. Reach isn't the same as value.

[dead]

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#278

Post by Draiken »

rootusrootus wrote: post #64
catlikesshrimp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you, is there nothing on earth beyond US borders? Last I checked, android was dominant, specially in poor countries (whereost people live)

The last thing we need is another race to the bottom. Android gets new features to be competitive, if they dominate by basically giving away their product it'll be the end of any innovation. And we have ample evidence that Google is not even slightly more altruistic than Apple.

How is opening up the Apple ecosystem a race to the bottom? Aren't they going to continue to produce their amazing products and apps? Are you implying that if they do open it up, they won't be as dominant?

I don't understand how "opening up a walled garden" would ever result in a worse product. If anything, they'll have to compete and become even better.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#279

Post by jwells89 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #223
noodlesUK wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until such time as a big player like Epic or Facebook decides that the only way you’re getting their apps is by using a store they control and can bypass all permission controls on. When that happens it’s going to become 2000’s browser toolbars all over again

That hasn't yet happened on Android. While it might happen on iOS, it's not reasonable to assume that it will happen.

My hypothesis is that it’ll happen to both iOS and Android once iOS has been forced to allow third party app stores in most major markets.

Why? Because historically, iOS has been the more profitable platform for mobile developers by a large margin. The payoff for building and maintaining an alternative app store for Android only is questionable, but improves significantly if the store can exist on iOS too.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#280

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

tammer wrote: post #218

I’ve come full circle on this but I now think native applications on smartphones was a mistake. There is no technological reason why applications can’t be distributed as PWA packages similar to the days prior to the App Store. This would serve two important functions: 1. Remove most if not all distribution monopoly concerns 2. Create application standards that function nearly identically across the myriad of screen s…

> but I now think native applications on smartphones was a mistake.

That seems a bit like rose-colored glasses. PWAs only really became viable in the past couple years (especially on iPhones when push notifications only were made available to PWAs in the last year), and even if you ignore Apple dragging it's feet, it's hard for me to imagine another scenario where all the hardware-based APIs (e.g. access to camera, media streaming, various sensors, in addition to push) didn't come out in native apps first before they were made available in the browser.

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