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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#231

Post by notyourwork »

WWLink wrote: post #214
fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

> People keep having to learn that developers cannot be trusted either The problem with this is that Apple is also a developer trying to sell you things. I would feel better if Apple's goals and the user's goals were aligned all the time instead of just some of the time. Admittedly, Apple's real priority is just to make money on every transaction that occurs upon an idevice.

Yes businesses are in the business of making money. Apple is a business. The hope for you (a consumer) is that your needs and theirs are aligned sufficiently well that they solve problems you benefit from while minimizing how much they exploit you. It’s capitalism.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#232

Post by amadeuspagel »

fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

Yes EU regulators are an easy mark that need Apple to protect them from WhatsApp or something.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#233

Post by 0x457 »

VelesDude wrote: post #182
pmarreck wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove an obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones.” This statement says a few extra things that Craig Federighi probably didn't realize he was saying. 1) It suggests that the iPhone wouldn't be able to hold its own in a market where interoperability with Android was easier. That demonstrates a lack of faith in it. 2) I've noticed that any time a corpor…

Regarding No 2. That is very true but it is astounding just how much inertia is in the system that keeps iPhone going. Turns out that the curated experience of iPhone combined with a lot of fumbles from various android vendors has kept iPhone image of being the best and most desirable phone. It is very vaguely feeling like if another big player was to come in they could actually make some waves that causes everyone e…

After 5 years of android, I've never been happier to switch back to iPhone.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#234

Post by talldayo »

mopenstein wrote: post #167
talldayo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes. It's a great reason to not let businesses decide on these things, because their petty interpretation will always override a communal solution. Once you reach Apple's scale, you shouldn't expect to start replacing stuff like SMS with a proprietary alternative and get away with it.

Why let the businesses create anything at all? Why not regulate the creation of everything?

Better question; why allow them access to the market if their only intention is to abuse it?

Apple can create whatever they want, but they're going to get the scrutiny they deserve. iMessage should be an on-ramp to better communications for everyone; instead it's become the flaming symbol of Apple's deliberate negligence. This is absolutely the point regulators should be stepping in and ensuring Apple isn't headed down an anti-consumer pathway that ensures market harm.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#235

Post by bigstrat2003 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #216
zer00eyz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those same kids aren't going to get mocked for the brand of clothing (or lack there of) that they wear? Using something as an excuse to be a piece of shit is not the same as giving a crap. This isnt an example of a good reason to do this.

I was a kid not too long ago and no one gave a shit about a single luxury item other than iPhones. People who had fancy stuff were generally made fun of, the cool kids all wore stuff from the thrift store

The point is that there will always be something that kids use to single out and ostracize others. Kids are little barbarians who don't know how to be decent human beings yet, it isn't going to change just because they have to pick on some other characteristic to mock.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#236

Post by sashank_1509 »

pompino wrote: post #142
fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

The only thing Apple cares about is Apple making more money. they will gladly gouge the end User so that their executives can line their pockets. there is nobody here you can actually ”trust”.

Such a bad take, please go back to Reddit where you might be congratulated for garden variety “everyone else is greedy and evil, but I can see through them and speak truth to power”. People here have higher standards on their takes.

If all Apple cared about is making money, would they have spent upwards of 10 Billion+ on an Apple Car only to cancel it later. At its height, Vision Pro R&D cost 2 billion per quarter, yes you read that correctly, almost 25% of their yearly net profits went into development of Vision Pro Alone. Does this sound like gouging the customer to line their executive pockets to you?

If Apple executives had lined their pockets, then why is the top Apple Executive only worth 2 Billion when Apple is worth close to 3 Trillion, that is less than 0.1% of Apple’s valuation. Apple’s top executive does not even make it to the world’s top 100 by wealth. Does that not make you think?

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#237

Post by asddubs »

tammer wrote: post #218

I’ve come full circle on this but I now think native applications on smartphones was a mistake. There is no technological reason why applications can’t be distributed as PWA packages similar to the days prior to the App Store. This would serve two important functions: 1. Remove most if not all distribution monopoly concerns 2. Create application standards that function nearly identically across the myriad of screen s…

my half-hearted counterpoints:

1. what about something like a usb flir heat camera? yes i know webusb exists, but having to go to a website to use a peripheral (and give it permissions to that peripheral) is not ideal

2. apps can change on you at any point, potentially maliciously. I'm not naive enough to think the app store will catch this kind of thing every time, but at least you have control over updating apps, and some guarantees that everyone gets the same binary

3. you can kiss any sort of ui-cohesion goodbye

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#238

Post by throw0101c »

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #170
fidotron wrote: post #16

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

[flagged]

> What people keep forgetting is the original iPhone had no App Store.

It arrived one year later, in 2008:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(Apple)

> People quickly forget the original 1st gen iPhone was, despite laying the foundation for some great technologies, hot garbage.

"Hot garbage" by what metric? Other phones introduced in 2007:

* https://mowned.com/top-mobile-devices/2007

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mobile_phones_introdu...

The Nokia N95 or RIM Curve 8320 were ranked higher by some folks:

* https://www.mobilegazette.com/2007-review-07x12x12.htm

* https://web.archive.org/web/20071214112358/http://reviews.cn...

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#239

Post by lynndotpy »

gretch wrote: post #190
lynndotpy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A bunch of teens got together and decided No, they did not. There is no teenage illuminati pulling the strings. The green bubble phenomena appeared throughout teen social life as iPhones became widely adopted. > I’m sure there’s some schools where you can’t be included unless you are wearing Abercrombie clothing, or have a MK purse. These are imagined phenomena which don't have bearing on the real phenomenon in que…

I assure it is not imagined as I attended public high school in the United States.

Was I wrong to interpret the phrasing "I’m sure there’s some schools" to imply you were assuming the existence of these schools?

I'm sorry that was your experience, but it's not a widespread phenomenon like the green bubble phenomenon is.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#240

Post by talldayo »

paulmd wrote: post #168
talldayo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so; it doesn't really matter when you're looking at damages. It's Apple's job to solve interoperability with their own platform, and not only have they failed to provide SMS-levels of interop, they actively work against it to promote ulterior products. It's exactly the sort of anticompetitive bundling that harms the market without improving competition. Maybe Ma Bell's success was in-part due to their free long…

Nobody provides SMS levels of interop on unrestricted internet messaging platforms because the experience sucks. Running the IM equivalent of an open SMTP relay is a ghastly experience for users. You literally have to gatekeep because the alternative is going back to circa-2000 levels of spam. Deep down you know exactly what would happen because we’ve all lived it with spam voice calls again recently - we’ve been try…

> Nobody provides SMS levels of interop on unrestricted internet messaging platforms because the experience sucks.

Maybe Apple should lead the charge on that, or instead they'll be forced to use something truly godawful like OMEMO or RCS. I'd prefer they didn't, but it would be pretty funny if they were forced down that path in the long-run. It takes a haughty spirit before the fall.

> Destroying a working, positive experience on the apple platform and dragging it down to 2000s level is the explicit goal for a lot of people.

A more believable motive than being one of the millions of non-Apple customers that are subject to using an inferior messaging standard? Apple made their bed by believing they could proprietate a public resource; now you've got to lie in it because you're their customer. Frankly I (and regulators) could care less what iMessage looks like once it's all done. It's apparently not our platform.

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