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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until such time as a big player like Epic or Facebook decides that the only way you’re getting their apps is by using a store they control and can bypass all permission controls on. When that happens it’s going to become 2000’s browser toolbars all over again

That hasn't yet happened on Android. While it might happen on iOS, it's not reasonable to assume that it will happen.

It has already happened on android in the case of Epic. They require that you side load their launcher/store in order to play games such as Fortnite. There was a big lawsuit about google’s fees which precipitated this.

https://www.fortnite.com/mobile/android/new-device?lang=en-U...

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing Apple cares about is Apple making more money. they will gladly gouge the end User so that their executives can line their pockets. there is nobody here you can actually ”trust”.

Such a bad take, please go back to Reddit where you might be congratulated for garden variety “everyone else is greedy and evil, but I can see through them and speak truth to power”. People here have higher standards on their takes. If all Apple cared about is making money, would they have spent upwards of 10 Billion+ on an Apple Car only to cancel it later. At its height, Vision Pro R&D cost 2 billion per quarter, y…

No thanks, I don't want your fake "higher standards".

>Does this sound like gouging the customer to line their executive pockets to you?

Yes, it does, when they lobby to fight against right-to-repair. Yes, it does, when they price gouge the customer on storage upgrades. Yes, it does, when they hide defects in their products and push people to buy new products. Yes, it does, when they use child labor.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#243
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN tells me that there's only one more step left after embracing and extending. Apple didn't make some mistake putting iMessage and SMS in the same app, they want you reliant on their service so that SMS seems (rightfully) poor by comparison. There would be nothing wrong with that if Apple wasn't equally as miserly with that power as the carriers they want to valiantly protest against. I'm no fan of cell carriers eit…

I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition. Doesn't benefit the public? Are happy iPhone users that rely on iMessage every day including it's SMS integration not benefited, or not the public?

> I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition.

It certainly doesn't need to be removed, just expanded. Apple can't have their cake and eat it too, you either replace SMS and the multiplatform commitments that come with it or you don't. Pretending to hold down a halfway-house to keep selling iPhones is not only a bundling tactic, but combined with Apple's negligence towards alternatives it's genuinely anticompetitive.

> Are happy iPhone users that rely on iMessage every day including it's SMS integration not benefited, or not the public?

...no, those are happy iPhone users. The public inherently means people that are not paying customers of Apple; regular citizens with no outstanding obligations to any corporation.

I don't understand how you could possibly interpret "the public" to mean "satisfied iPhone customers" in this situation.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#244
post #191
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a limitation of the messaging protocol. Apple has announced they will add support for RCS this year, which should address these issues.

And why are they adding RCS? Because the EU is starting to regulate them so theyve stopped dragging their ass on this.

> Because the EU is starting to regulate them so theyve stopped dragging their ass on this.

Or it's China mandating RCS to be able to acquire '5G certification':

* CN: https://www.miit.gov.cn/gzcy/yjzj/art/2023/art_2d5a7969581b4...

* EN: https://old.reddit.com/r/UniversalProfile/comments/153rrwl/c...

> China Mobile, China Telecom and China Unicom yesterday (8 April) released a 5G messaging white paper outlining their commitment to mandate all compatible handsets sold in the country support Rich Communication Services (RCS).

* https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/latest-news/china-operat...

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#245
post #45

The thing people love forgetting is a huge part of the iPhone success is based on the North American cellular comms industry being a trustless disaster area. The deal Apple did with AT&T opened the floodgates. Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. The idea was apps were developed (and sold) only by operators, and everything else would be via the browser. If you had used a Nokia device i…

>Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. ... The exclusion of carriers from being able to make modifications to the phone was, and remains, an active feature for end users. Japanese Android phones bought from carriers are fucking horrible because they have modifications both from the manufacturer (eg: Sony, Samsung) and the carrier . I wonder if this is partially why Japan is among the fe…

I remember it used to be and may still be the case that Android OS updates would be held up on both the OEM and the carrier. So Samsung may have finished their version of the update, but your carrier can't be bothered reapplying their bloatware to it so you aren't getting the update.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#246
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition. Doesn't benefit the public? Are happy iPhone users that rely on iMessage every day including it's SMS integration not benefited, or not the public?

> I don't see that removing or crippling an option a lot of users rely on improves the market, or competition. It certainly doesn't need to be removed, just expanded. Apple can't have their cake and eat it too, you either replace SMS and the multiplatform commitments that come with it or you don't. Pretending to hold down a halfway-house to keep selling iPhones is not only a bundling tactic, but combined with Apple's…

> Apple can't have their cake and eat it too, you either replace SMS and the multiplatform commitments that come with it or you don't.

You keep suggesting that Apple replaced SMS. They didn't. So per this new statement, they have no multi-platform commitments because they haven't done anything to warrant it.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#247
post #218

I’ve come full circle on this but I now think native applications on smartphones was a mistake. There is no technological reason why applications can’t be distributed as PWA packages similar to the days prior to the App Store. This would serve two important functions: 1. Remove most if not all distribution monopoly concerns 2. Create application standards that function nearly identically across the myriad of screen s…

my half-hearted counterpoints: 1. what about something like a usb flir heat camera? yes i know webusb exists, but having to go to a website to use a peripheral (and give it permissions to that peripheral) is not ideal 2. apps can change on you at any point, potentially maliciously. I'm not naive enough to think the app store will catch this kind of thing every time, but at least you have control over updating apps, a…

OS cohesion/themes are already kind of a dead idea. These days the priority is cohesion within the app and platform. When I open Discord, it looks basically the same on Android, iOS, Mac, Linux, Windows, and web. If I know where something is on one platform, I can find it on all the others. I don't care that Discord on Mac doesn't look like Spotify on Mac.

The others are also kind of mute points, No one is auditing app updates, and I'm not sure how an app can be more trusted with access to a usb/bluetooth device than a website. they are both 3rd party programs doing the same thing.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#248
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You literally have to gatekeep because the alternative is going back to circa-2000 levels of spam. The vast majority of spam is explicitly permitted by Google. What are you talking about? Do you not use e-mail? They have a Promotions tab, they could make spam - that is, marketing emails - go away in an afternoon, if they wanted to. They just don't, because those same companies are Google Ads customers.

> The vast majority of spam is explicitly permitted by Google. What are you talking about? It is certainly not lmao - try sending mail to google from your own smtp server on your own doma Seeing some spam occasionally doesn’t mean the vast majority isn’t being rej > They have a Promotions tab, they could make spam - that is, marketing emails - go away in an afternoon, if they wanted to. opting into newsletters is exp…

> opting into newsletters is explicitly not spam

C'mon. Signing up for a store to buy a thing doesn't grant permission to bother me with a newsletter, you very frequently just can't opt out until they've sent you something.

That's the "I'm not touching you" of compliance and spam-in-spirit should have a mudhole stomped into it--and yet does not.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#249

I’ve been a recent convert to the iPhone. It gives me a unique perspective since I’ve spent almost my entire life in the Android ecosystem. I first bought an iPhone 5c on a whim, which is well out of support by apple, 5 versions behind the modern iOS. If you turn it on, all the default Apple apps work, in 2024. You can stream Apple Music and download podcasts with no App Store whatsoever. It’s a powerful little devic…

Guess what? Joe Consumer lives in a society that has an economy. And that economy thrives on open markets and competition. US antitrust law knew this from Teddy Roosevelt all the way until Ronald Reagan gutted that notion, and began to focus only on consumer harm. But consumers aren’t the only part of an economy! They’re probably not even the most important part. Open competition is vital for a diverse and open econo…

You make no sense. Germany protects domestic manufacturing to keep their engineers and workers employed, admirable. Who exactly is US trying to keep employed? Please tell me something concrete, don’t use Orwellian terminology like Open markets when you mean Govt Regulated markets.

Without Apple’s introduction of the smart-phone, millions of app development jobs would not exist. Apple’s 30% tax is reducing profits of some developers, the biggest ones are complaining but none of it is gutting the economy, app development is not being shifted overseas because Apple made the cost of development too high. If anything it is the literal opposite, SWE salaries are still increasing because the demand for app developers still outpaces the supply, and people are more than willing to pay 6 figures+ for a good SWE.

The funny thing is your frame has some truth to it, it’s just your entire thinking is hopelessly muddled that you focus on everything that doesn’t matter. There is case, where the government can step in, raise the price of the iPhones to employ more people, cause net consumer harm but still be better for society. That is in iPhone manufacturing where all the jobs have been shifted overseas and no trade worker in US gets employed to make iPhones. This is a real problem, and yet no one in the FTC cares about this, they may not even know this problem exists in their desperate bid to grab power and come up on the front page of NYT with a big win. And what will they achieve? They will let some other app developers make more money, but no offense to 99% of HN, you guys are highly paid and a 30% higher potential margin really doesn’t matter. They will dictate design decisions to a company that is probably 100000x better at design than the FTC is and get fawning reviews from NYT, get invited to talks at universities, maybe even get called to a late night show (has happened before) and that is probably all that matters to them.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a kid not too long ago and no one gave a shit about a single luxury item other than iPhones. People who had fancy stuff were generally made fun of, the cool kids all wore stuff from the thrift store

The point is that there will always be something that kids use to single out and ostracize others. Kids are little barbarians who don't know how to be decent human beings yet, it isn't going to change just because they have to pick on some other characteristic to mock.

Why does apple ahve to encourage that behavior though? Theyve designed iMessage to make the experience worse with some people, it absolutely encourages exclusionary behavior among those who arent inclined to be exclusionary. Obviously some kids are just assholes, but plenty arent just going around looking for things to be mean about.
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