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The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

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Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#121

I’ve been a recent convert to the iPhone. It gives me a unique perspective since I’ve spent almost my entire life in the Android ecosystem. I first bought an iPhone 5c on a whim, which is well out of support by apple, 5 versions behind the modern iOS. If you turn it on, all the default Apple apps work, in 2024. You can stream Apple Music and download podcasts with no App Store whatsoever. It’s a powerful little devic…

Guess what? Joe Consumer lives in a society that has an economy. And that economy thrives on open markets and competition. US antitrust law knew this from Teddy Roosevelt all the way until Ronald Reagan gutted that notion, and began to focus only on consumer harm. But consumers aren’t the only part of an economy! They’re probably not even the most important part. Open competition is vital for a diverse and open economy where all sorts of market entrants can participate, and create companies that pay taxes, and create jobs for people who are also, in turn, consumers. Sometimes higher prices are worth it if an economic sector is open and thriving. We know this intuitively when it comes to trade protections, as countries like Germany go to great lengths to protect domestic manufacturing at the expense of cheaper cars.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#122

As a newish user of Apple (Macbook and the IPad mini) it was not as big a leap from Android and Windows as I had feared. I still live in Google services including Gboard on the IPad mini and apart from klutzing around with system settings occasionally the mini feels "not terribly different" from the android devices I use. The Macbook is a bigger challenge though. I only picked the mini because I couldn't get the same…

And yet, in Apple’s preferred world, they suck up 30% of all of the revenue made by developers who develop for their devices. The Mac model may not exist in 10 years if Apple can get rid of it and replace it with a locked down App Store from which they charge rents.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#123
post #92
post #3

I’ve got to be honest while I appreciate the direction they are forced in, I have yet to find anyone outside the tech industry who actually knows or gives a crap. Also the only reason Epic and Spotify are after them is not some altruistic reason but they want to be the guys charging the 30% margin. It’s a bit of a grey victory but I’ll take it.

Spotify does not want to charge a “30% margin”. Spotify wants to not give up 30% of their revenue to Apple, who coincidentally had a competing service effectively free from the 30% tax. The epic game store charges 12%; against which developers are partially handcuffed due to steams price matching requirement.

Relevant: Spotify already hands over 70% of their revenue to music rights holders to cover the various performance and mechanical royalties. All of their other operating expenses have to fit into the remaining 30%, meaning they often have quarters that report a loss.

Apple trying to take 30% of subscriptions while operating a competing service as a value-add that can afford to be a loss leader is highly anticompetitive.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#124
post #89
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Android was initially designed so that operators could customise it. ... The exclusion of carriers from being able to make modifications to the phone was, and remains, an active feature for end users. Japanese Android phones bought from carriers are fucking horrible because they have modifications both from the manufacturer (eg: Sony, Samsung) and the carrier . I wonder if this is partially why Japan is among the fe…

If you think about it, this is one of the reasons I like macOS. Back then, buying a PC with windows meant having a lot of crap installed by default. Not sure if it's still the case because I haven't bought a PC in ages, but I remember that formatting my computer and reinstalling windows was step 1 when I was buying a brand new laptop/PC.

What you describe is the main reason I like Linux, but at last check the reinstall trick doesn't even work anymore because a lot of the preloaded software can get reinstalled automatically even if you install from non-OEM media. Its still probably better than trusting the preinstalled OS in the world of state sponsored spying and supply chain attacks.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#125
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to find anyone outside the tech industry who actually knows or gives a crap. Lots of school kids who get mocked for being "Green Texters" with crummy images and videos in their group texts. They really want their parents to shell out for an iPhone so it stops. Just because non-tech people don't know the cause, doesn't mean it doesn't affect them.

This is an outrageous take. Is iMessage the only group messaging app? If Apple was gate keeping all group messaging, I could see your point.

Not really. The Department of Justice cited this exact behavior in their investigation of Apple.

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1241443505/green-bubble-shami...

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#126
post #117
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a US problem. First link of a quick search: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/apples-green-bub...

So it's more a problem with the humans than the technology.

I think it's economic. The US has free texting these days, which means SMS has more usage here than in another countries. This has prevented the entire nation from coalesing around one chat app, as so many others have.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#127
post #103
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS still works fine. No one is forced to purchase an iPhone because they want to message someone.

In US, green bubble social peer-pressure does force many teens to buy iPhones.

“Force”? No one is forced to give in to peer pressure by buying something.

It’s one thing to want to fit in, but then we should also force clothing to not have visible brands so kids can’t compare what clothes they have, and youth sports teams so kids can’t exclude non-sports playing peers.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#128

I think the iphone becoming a commodity means the apps themselves are more of the focus. I am surprised Apple never put work into making killer social media app, a search engine, etc. these things live beyond the lifecycle of phones

They never developed a search engine because they were getting paid something like $18 billion a year by Google not to.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#129
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m struggling to see what’s wrong with Federighi’s argument. Why should he not want to protect Apple’s position? Apple has no monopoly on mobile messaging or hardware, and they didn’t 8 years ago either, so they can do what they like here. What is Apple supposed to do? Spend time and money on interop to better the lives of Android users? There’s nothing wrong with them doing so if they like, but I fail to see any ob…

You're right. They obviously have no motivation to do the correct thing, so the solution is government regulation. We live in a world where every landline telephone can dial another with no trickery or fuckery from your phone manufacturer. That is a good thing. We should extend that functionally to smartphones.

You’re going to have to be much more specific if you want to make any sense. All cell phones can already call other cell phones. All cell phones can already message other cell phones.

Re: The walls of Apple's garden are tumbling down

#130
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you said is hypothetically true but fails to withstand scrutiny. Apple has a brand of trust and security. If they decided to become even the tiniest bit evil in that dimension their “secure” brand would evaporate overnight. Unless you think they control all media and levers to power too?

What, if they did something like set up a massive ad sales team after banning FBs competing tools and literally went to all the gaming advertisers and told them that Apple would still let them target on payment status? Something like that, perhaps? Fortunately we live in a world where corporations are never hypocrites, so that definitely didn't happen.

First off, I’m far more concerned about end-user security and privacy than anti-competitive moves.

For the latter I’m sure the FTC will cover that in their antitrust suit.

Secondly do you have a link for your targeting claims?

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