Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#181

Post by anonporridge » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:46 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #124

FredPret wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a shame that he's sullying his reputation like this. Howard Hughes-like. He could have retired in a blaze of glory a couple of years ago, straight into the pantheon of epic American entrepreneurs.

South African entrepreneurs? EDIT: I had heard he was South African. Googled it though: "South African-born American businessman" so I guess he is American now. Thanks.

You seem not American.

To Americans, being born to a different nationality doesn't preclude you from being considered a full and true American. First generation immigrants and naturalized citizens tend to be completely accepted as equals by natural born citizens, so long as they are productive and not criminally destructive.

I do understand that this tends to not be the case in many other countries, where even second generation immigrants may not be fully accepted because ethnic identity is so deeply entwined in nationality in most countries.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#182

Post by ein0p » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:46 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #161

ein0p wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do believe our species needs to be multiplanetary, internet should be available everywhere, electric cars need to take over, and paralyzed people should be able to walk again.

We share the same goals (except for electric cars needing to take over - they do, but the real issue is that public mass transit needs to take over!), but the methods / the lengths Elon Musk is willing to go to in pursuit of those goals are disturbing to many people.

I don't think public mass transit will take over in the US in my lifetime, outside major cities. We're just too spread out, and a lot of us, especially people with kids, like it that way. Mass transit absolutely, positively does not work in the US if you have at least one child.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#183

Post by akouri » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:48 PM UTC

foobarian wrote: post #18

Maybe we're getting to saturation in early adopter market? Looking around, there are a lot of folks who could not easily live with a BEV, i.e. live in apartment buildings or don't have an easy way to install L2 charging at home.

I built www.letselectrify.org as a side project to make it easier for people in multifamily buildings (condos, apartments, and HOAs) to get their own dedicated EV chargers.

In multifamily buildings, such as my 85-unit condo, there isn’t any at-home charging. At best, there is one shared charger for the community to use.

This sucks for several reasons: 1. You have to remember to move your car when it’s done charging, 2. The HOA is stuck paying the bill for all the electricity, and 3. As more and more people get electric cars, shared chargers don’t scale.

The most common Homeowner Association (HOA) objections to adding more charging: 1. It costs too much, and 2. Nobody wants this.

HOAs are generally risk-averse and don’t want to spend money on discretionary things like EV charging. This means that the only way for residents to conveniently own an electric car is to pay out of pocket (sometimes up to $20k) to install a single charger, which usually also requires the HOA to approve on a case-by-case basis.

Instead of all these one-off installs, letselectrify.org combines everyone that wants a charger into one campaign and lets them split the cost of installation, which ends up being much cheaper.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#184

Post by LUmBULtERA » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:48 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #51

ta8645 wrote: post #31

Not sure how it will affect things going forward, but the Model 3 may help. Jay Leno did an excellent segment about it a few weeks back, with a pair of Tesla engineers: https://youtu.be/WLMalLy_3JU

Making more Model 3s than Tesla can sell is a big part of the problem. The Model 3 and Y account for 43,000 out of the 46,000 unit overrun.

Production constraints could be a regional problem. Model 3 highland only recently started showing up in inventory in the US and for now, it's only the standard range models and there are no inventory discounts. No long-range models are showing up in inventory (for me at least?). Plenty of Y are in inventory. I'd have bought one in Q1 but I don't qualify for the tax credit, so I went used.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#185

Post by aeturnum » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:48 PM UTC

Lots of talk about how Musk's controversies are hurting the company (agree!) but I think a bigger problem may be his tendency to hyper-focus on things. Many tesla models have not received significant updates or styling changes in years. Tesla is no longer brand new, the oldest production Model S'es are ~12 years old. Many of their changes have been along the line of company-wide changes or upgrades (which are also good) but people like having their new car look new, not like one from a decade ago. It feels like Musks companies suffer from hyperfocus, probably because effort is directed by the his attention, but car companies can't work like that.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#186

Post by thrill » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:51 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #114

hn72774 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a recent first time buyer of a (used) EV and use the L1 120v charger that came with the vehicle. The daily commute use is low enough that it charges to full overnight. Before I purchased I thought I'd need to pay for a L2 charger and hire an electrician to install a 240v circuit in the driveway. Turned it that I just needed a short 10ga extension cord from an existing 120v receptacle. Our household have a second…

I think one of the biggest enemies of EV adoption is that people just don't intrinsically understand that "refueling" is fundamentally different.

And they are constantly badgered to not gain that understanding.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#187

Post by AlexandrB » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:51 PM UTC

hn72774 wrote: post #73

Could it be that Musk's inflammatory language and behaviors are a turn off for potential buyers? They are a turn off for me. I like the vehicles but I'd never get one.

Forget the content of what Musk says, the fact that he's on Twitter so much seems like a bad sign if you're a Tesla shareholder. His attention is already split between 3-4 companies, if he's tweeting all day on top of that how much attention is Tesla and its problems/opportunities getting?

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#188

Post by AlexandrB » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

leetharris wrote: post #93

hn72774 wrote: post #73

Could it be that Musk's inflammatory language and behaviors are a turn off for potential buyers? They are a turn off for me. I like the vehicles but I'd never get one.

The vast majority of the world doesn't exist in the online sphere. I think that they have saturated the initial EV buyers, mainstream is still afraid of EV and there's more anti-EV propaganda in the media than ever before.

Some of it is propaganda, and some of it is a direct result of Tesla's design choices. It would be ironic if Tesla helped give EVs a bad name with novelty "features" like electric door latches and a lack of mechanical controls.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#189

Post by NovemberWhiskey » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:53 PM UTC

tristan957 wrote: post #173

foobarian wrote: post #18

Maybe we're getting to saturation in early adopter market? Looking around, there are a lot of folks who could not easily live with a BEV, i.e. live in apartment buildings or don't have an easy way to install L2 charging at home.

I think the apartment issue is really more of a non-issue, assuming there are fast chargers near you. Can apartment dwellers like myself really not go charge for 10-30 minutes every couple of days? A trip to the gas station is typically ~5 minutes. At least that is how I rationalize potential EV ownership.

>assuming there are fast chargers near you.

That's a big assumption. Based on the data I see here:

https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Programs/Drive-Clean-Rebate-F...

... there are fewer than 10 total DC fast charging connection serving the entire of Manhattan, Staten Island and the Bronx.

Re: Tesla releases Q1 2024 deliveries: disastrous results

#190

Post by williamsmj » Tue, Apr 02, 2024, 3:54 PM UTC

rvnx wrote: post #58

Ekaros wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the reality that there is lot more options so people gravitate towards them. And brand loyalty might also be a thing, of which there is lot for also other brands.

The technological gap is tightening, Tesla was alone before, the same way that Nvidia is "alone" for now. Tesla still has some advance in terms of autopilot (in the US), but for all other things, it's an electric car with a great software but a rather low-quality hardware finish if to compare with other brands like Mercedes.

> The technological gap is tightening, Tesla was alone before, the same way that Nvidia is "alone" for now.

It's worse than that. Nvidia has a moat (deployed software and the open source software ecosystem) that buys them at least a few years, even if a well-resourced hardware peer appeared out of thin air tomorrow. Tesla has nothing like this. The cost of switching away from them is negligible, and they have half a dozen extremely well-resourced competitors.