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Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

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Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#131

Post by supriyo-biswas »

tkgally wrote: post #112

The article engages in a bit too much overgeneralization for my taste: “Collective harmony and hierarchy are strongly idealised across East Asia,” “Americans are extremely direct,” etc. There’s a lot more social and individual diversity than statements like that suggest. One data point: I grew up in the U.S. but have lived in Japan for the past forty-one years. I freelanced for Japanese companies for my first two dec…

I also have to question the point about “direct negative feedback” quoted from Meyer, 2014. In many Indian companies, it is perfectly acceptable to provide negative feedback in public, and in an extremely aggressive way (shouting etc.) which is why people will often go to lengths to prevent others from discovering their mistakes.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#133

Post by hattmall »

resolutebat wrote: post #73
nox101 wrote: post #5

This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…

I think the "with food" bit is underrated. Bar/pub food in the West is crappy almost by definition (the occasional gastropub notwithstanding) and many/most people don't eat anything at all, while if you go drinking in Tokyo, food is an absolutely critical part of the izakaya (Japanese pub) experience. It's also quite socially acceptable for women to go to an izakaya and drink oolong tea instead of alcohol all night l…

I don't really see how this is the case, every single nice restaurant also has a bar and bar area, it's not like you have to go to Buffalo Wild Wings or something.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#134

Post by datavirtue »

nox101 wrote: post #5

This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…

Now drinking is healing. Oh, brother.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#135

Post by mcmoor »

nsonha wrote: post #126

"Asia" is too broad, the Japanese and Chinese are on the extreme side of this spectrum, but it's not like that in South East Asia and I'd imagine south asians to not even drink.

By this point "Asia" as the entire continent is obsolete colloquially and also not useful. There's almost nothing uniting the entire region. People nowadays use "Asia" only to refer to East Asia, and I think they have a point.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#136

Post by Cyph0n »

Gormo wrote: post #100
throwaway98797 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not all bosses are like you

So alcohol has the added benefit of distinguishing competent leaders from incompetent ones?

Allowing your colleagues to ridicule you doesn’t make you a competent leader.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#137

Post by barrysteve »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #54
barrysteve wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcoholics lie, cheat and steal to fuel their habit. Extreme alcohol is a horrific poison to the body and mind. I'd wager a healthy man who can drink you under the table, wouldn't reveal any secrets. He'll finish the drink in his own time.

Having a drink with the colleagues has nothing to do with alcoholism. I used to organize nights out with colleagues even if I was never drinking alcohol (I had to drive). But the point in "going for a beer" is socializing and informal communication, not the beer.

Obviously having a drink with the colleagues has nothing to do with alcoholism.

I was responding to the comment that 'in the extreme, alcohol is a truth serum'. It isn't.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#138

Post by yaky »

jimbob45 wrote: post #125
tkgally wrote: post #112

The article engages in a bit too much overgeneralization for my taste: “Collective harmony and hierarchy are strongly idealised across East Asia,” “Americans are extremely direct,” etc. There’s a lot more social and individual diversity than statements like that suggest. One data point: I grew up in the U.S. but have lived in Japan for the past forty-one years. I freelanced for Japanese companies for my first two dec…

Are Americans actually considered “extremely direct”? Any foreigners on here able to chime in on if that generalization rings true?

As a Ukrainian-American (more so the latter, I've lived in the US for the past 20+ years), US corporate culture requires making any statement into a very polite, almost optional, suggestion ("would you", "it would be great if", etc). Several times I was accused of being "rude" when I made a direct statement.

So it is not exactly direct, but I don't have a good cultural reference to compare to either.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#139

Post by solidsnack9000 »

dnissley wrote: post #87
tombert wrote: post #2

Even in the US, in tech firms, it's pretty common to have happy hours where everyone drinks a bit. I don't drink at all due to my sleep apnea, and don't even have caffeine after 1pm for the same reason, so I'm pretty much always in this kind of awkward position of sipping on a water throughout the night while coworkers get more and more inebriated. I don't think it's ever directly hurt my chances of promotion or anyt…

My experience at a bigtechco where they have a weekly happy hour with free alcohol is that it's a pretty small minority that partakes (~20% out of the ~20% of in-office folks that attend these after work events). I've also never seen anyone have more than ~2-3 drinks total. The median number of drinks is 1 by far. This is all post-covid though, perhaps it was different in the before times.

In the before times, sometimes the drinking started on Thursday.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#140

Post by a_vanderbilt »

tkgally wrote: post #112

The article engages in a bit too much overgeneralization for my taste: “Collective harmony and hierarchy are strongly idealised across East Asia,” “Americans are extremely direct,” etc. There’s a lot more social and individual diversity than statements like that suggest. One data point: I grew up in the U.S. but have lived in Japan for the past forty-one years. I freelanced for Japanese companies for my first two dec…

I get the impression the variable is not social drinking but social adaptitude. I do want your opinion on the matter, however. Every native Japanese person I have known is incredibly reserved. As an example, I had a Japanese coworker, and I did not even know they had a wife until they corrected me in conversation. Maybe it is the subtle aspects of the language (my Japanese is still not great)? I am looking to establish an EOR in Japan and eventually move there with the goal of citizenship, but I've been holding off until I understand the language well enough to get by without outside help.
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