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Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

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Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#91

Post by lotsofpulp »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #64
kelnos wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My experience was before lived in Asia (USA only) I thought drinking was bad (bar fights, drunk driving deaths, etc...) Wow, I guess I just don't hang out with the same kinds of people you do (USA as well). I don't think I've ever witnessed a bar fight, and no one I know has been involved in a drunk driving crash (on either side of it). And yet I've done plenty of drinking (I don't remember much of my 30s because o…

> I don't think I've ever witnessed a bar fight, and no one I know has been involved in a drunk driving crash I grew up drinking and lived in alcohol culture(s). At 25 I moved to another state, didn't drink and mostly circulated in non-drinking circles. Before 25 I saw plenty of alcohol fueled fights. They weren't in bars but neither was I. I've been on both sides of drunk crashes (not driving) as were (possibly most…

> I've been on both sides of drunk crashes (not driving) as were (possibly most of) my friends.

That is a crazy statistic that would be a clear signal for me to move away.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#92

Post by popularonion »

crvdgc wrote: post #78

This is only partially true from my experience as a Chinese grew up in Northern China. I think a greater factor is deliberately causing pain or embarrassment. Like the initiation rites for fraternities or sororities, the pain is the point. The reason behind this is that a commonly shared embarrassing experience creates intimacy and loyalty. I'm more inclined to accept this theory over others including the one from th…

That’s a great point that everyone else is overlooking. The comparison is obvious if you have a little experience with frat culture.

(I was never in one, but I went to a college where fraternities are a huge deal, and I never felt comfortable there. I packed my schedule with extra classes to get my degree and get out as soon as I could.)

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#93

Post by araes »

crvdgc wrote: post #78

This is only partially true from my experience as a Chinese grew up in Northern China. I think a greater factor is deliberately causing pain or embarrassment. Like the initiation rites for fraternities or sororities, the pain is the point. The reason behind this is that a commonly shared embarrassing experience creates intimacy and loyalty. I'm more inclined to accept this theory over others including the one from th…

An interesting point (Dutch interpretation), since it obviously causes the writer of the article to be in pain and embarrassment. Which may also be a secondary point. It self selects for those who are willing to go through the hazing.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#94

Post by mint2 »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #90
kazinator wrote: post #63

> Why Do East Asian Firms Value Drinking? Lack of a history of Christian puritanism? America's historic relationship with alcohol was shaped by the loonies who fled there from Europe so they could left alone to practice their ascetic forms of Christianity. A lot of phenomena in Asia cannot be properly understood if you lose sight of the lack of Christianity. For instance, could you have a mainstream, pop-band consist…

What did they flee?

From Other flavors of Christianity that were persecuting them. Also the general poor conditions at the time.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#95

Post by lotsofpulp »

iamacyborg wrote: post #62
kzrdude wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoid both coffee and refined sugar and then the list of alternatives really shrinks. Herbal tea is a good one of course, and in a bar one can often get pure apple juice.

Wait, why is sugar bad but apple juice okay?

It’s not, it’s the same bad. Pediatricians try to drill this into parents.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#97

Post by tombert »

addicted wrote: post #86
tombert wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really do sugary drinks, so Diet Coke/Diet Pepsi is out as well. I also just actively dislike tea and coffee, so I don't really want to go with any kind of decaf version of those either. So yeah, if the bar has Diet 7-up or Diet Caffeine Free Coke, then I'm fine, but at least in the NYC area I've not really ever seen that at a bar. They're not even guaranteed to have them at grocery stores. As it stands, the…

Seltzer + lime is a fairly standard option. Bonus, it looks like an alcoholic drink if you’re a woman and don’t want to give the idea that you might be pregnant, which is an issue which women trying to grow in corporate situations face at events, when in reality they simply don’t like drinking and/or don’t want to be around a bunch of men getting hammered who may potentially have sway over their careers.

That's actually a really good idea. I'm not a woman so there's not much risk of people thinking I'm pregnant, but I could see some kind of lime seltzer being good and people could assume it's a gin and tonic or something.

I might steal this.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#98

Post by refracture »

neilv wrote: post #70
refracture wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but those same Mormons drink all the booze if there’s no other Mormons at the party.

That might be true in some cases, but I haven't seen it. The Mormons I've seen tend to be more healthy clean living, than anything else.

It’s perhaps wrong of me to generalize but I’ve lived in Utah my whole life, some are clean and healthy others are unhealthy slobs, just like the general population. The whole ‘drank all the booze’ people are more often those pretending to believe in their faith because of the social repercussions of leaving it.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#99

Post by tombert »

parpfish wrote: post #80
ofrzeta wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinkers also don't like having teetotalers around them because of the bad conscience they induce.

Another part of it is that (imo) one of the biggest boons from group drinking is that it builds trust by giving people something to bond over — you’ve all imbibed to lower your inhibitions and get a little sloppy/loose, and the next day you see that you’re still accepted and part of the group. Teetotalers might be there physically, but they’ve opted out of the shared experience of making themselves vulnerable.

I mean, I didn't really "opt out". I don't breath properly when I sleep, alcohol makes it worse, the doctor more or less made the decision for me.

But I suppose alcohol is bad for basically everyone, and the others opt in to that risk as well.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#100

Post by Gormo »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #77
ryoshu wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ego was always there. It was repressed by social norms and intoxicants can release those constraints. As a “boss” I actually like when people challenge me, including calling me an “idiot.” I’ve gone as far to tell people to feel free to tell me to, “fuck off” if I’m getting something wrong. It’s all about intent and trust. If we can’t be honest things don’t work.

not all bosses are like you

So alcohol has the added benefit of distinguishing competent leaders from incompetent ones?
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