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Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

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Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#51

Post by aleph_minus_one »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #25
nox101 wrote: post #5

This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…

My argument would be that these social intoxicants allow for the reduction in anxiety stress (more broadly ego attachments) which enables a ego reduction and more incentive to unmask and resultant follow on effects. In the best case, this allows for social vulnerability that leads to trust and trust is the basis for society. Note that for some people, they are deep into traumatic fear stress that inebriation might ac…

> My argument would be that these social intoxicants allow for the reduction in anxiety stress which enables a ego reduction

Just a counterthought:

If I your anxiety stress becomes reduced, you might be less anxious to call your boss an idiot. :-D

Seriously: if you become less afraid of the social consequences, this actually might increase your ego. I know quite some people who in my observation have a stronger ego under influence than when they are sober.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#52

Post by yongjik »

I think the article gets some facts right, but in pursuit of a grand unifying theory of society, jumps too hastily to conclusion.

As a South Korean living in the US, it reminds of me when some Koreans say:

"Why do Americans do (X)? Guns. It's because they all have guns."

(X can be a lot of things, including "Why do Americans smile so much?")

Come on. You can't take a multi-generational social problem and distill it to a single cause like that.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#53

Post by AdrianB1 »

ghusto wrote: post #13

> The Dutch and Israelis are famously direct. They don’t mind confrontation, so usually speak their mind and take no offence. By contrast, East Asians are more likely to value collective harmony. This means that they avoid direct confrontation, so artfully use be more subtle and diplomatic language. I don't see how speaking your mind is confrontational or at odds with "collective harmony". Intention is all that matte…

It matters as in each culture the communication style is interpreted in some way, but not necessarily your way. I lived a while in the Middle East and being very direct was considered to be rude; it may be not rude at all for a Dutch, but it is for a Saudi.

People don't really understand diversity. Instead of understanding that diversity of cultures means different cultures view the world in different ways and in some cases they may be right, we transformed diversity into an internet meme.

So your direct way to speak your mind is fine for you and your culture, but it may be the other way around for other people.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#54

Post by AdrianB1 »

barrysteve wrote: post #29
genman wrote: post #4

In its extreme alcohol is a truth serum. The ones who don't drink want to keep their secrets to themselves and can't be trusted.

Alcoholics lie, cheat and steal to fuel their habit. Extreme alcohol is a horrific poison to the body and mind. I'd wager a healthy man who can drink you under the table, wouldn't reveal any secrets. He'll finish the drink in his own time.

Having a drink with the colleagues has nothing to do with alcoholism. I used to organize nights out with colleagues even if I was never drinking alcohol (I had to drive). But the point in "going for a beer" is socializing and informal communication, not the beer.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#55

Post by barrysteve »

ghusto wrote: post #13

> The Dutch and Israelis are famously direct. They don’t mind confrontation, so usually speak their mind and take no offence. By contrast, East Asians are more likely to value collective harmony. This means that they avoid direct confrontation, so artfully use be more subtle and diplomatic language. I don't see how speaking your mind is confrontational or at odds with "collective harmony". Intention is all that matte…

Diplomacy brings flexibility.

A well oiled team always has some level of diplomacy to keep everyone working shoulder to shoulder pointing in the same direction.

I don't think collective harmony aims to be a dick either.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#56

Post by EFreethought »

rvba wrote: post #40
genman wrote: post #4

In its extreme alcohol is a truth serum. The ones who don't drink want to keep their secrets to themselves and can't be trusted.

The truth gets downvoted, since unpopular. As if you never saw someone get drunk and spill their beans. Alcohol removes inhibitors (at least to some people) from "drunk calling the ex" to "telling the boss that their idea is stupid".

Maybe that comment got downvoted because it has no truth.

Drinkers cling to their own delusions about non-drinkers.

And nothing about my life is "secret". It's just not your concern.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#57

Post by convolvatron »

ghusto wrote: post #19
Razengan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how speaking your mind is confrontational or at odds with "collective harmony". Intention is all that matters in my opinion. Even in Western cultures, if you try saying something at odds with the "room" or the current bandwagon, like here on HN for example, you will feel the frowns coming your way.

Meh, different life experiences then. I've never had any trouble with it. Then again I could be autistic and haven't noticed / cared. In a business setting, the room should bend to facts, not group-think.

in a business setting 'who's the daddy' is often alot more important than the facts

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#58

Post by iamacyborg »

tombert wrote: post #47
arccy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are plenty of other beverages that aren't alcoholic/caffeinated than just plain water

I don't really do sugary drinks, so Diet Coke/Diet Pepsi is out as well. I also just actively dislike tea and coffee, so I don't really want to go with any kind of decaf version of those either. So yeah, if the bar has Diet 7-up or Diet Caffeine Free Coke, then I'm fine, but at least in the NYC area I've not really ever seen that at a bar. They're not even guaranteed to have them at grocery stores. As it stands, the…

There are quite a few decent alcohol free beers these days although they’re not sugar free.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#60

Post by resolutebat »

Bit of an aside, but that "low-high" context scale with the US proudly at the "tell it like it is" extreme left instantly reduces the credibility of any article where I see this.

"That's an interesting idea and we should totally do lunch sometime" is Silicon Valley for "that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard and never want to see you again".

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