Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#261

Post by clbrmbr » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:14 PM UTC

a_humean wrote: post #73

ungreased0675 wrote: post #20

I do wonder if OpenAI is built on a house of cards. They aren’t a nonprofit, aren’t open, and stole a huge quantity of copyrighted material to get started. But, by moving fast and scaling quickly, are they at the Too Big to Fail stage already? The attempted board coup makes me think so.

Openai isn't even close to too big to fail. Bank of America fails the entire banking system collapses and the entire real economy grinds to a halt. If GM fails hundreds of thousands lose their jobs and entire supply chains collapse. If power utilities fail then people start actually dying within hours or days. If OpenAI fails nothing actually important happens.

Yet. But we are getting close to an event horizon, once enough orgs become dependent of their models.

Open source models are actually potentially worse. Even if OAI is not TBTF because of the competition, we have a scenario where AGI sector as a whole becomes TBTF and too big to halt.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#262

Post by WolfeReader » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:14 PM UTC

tw600040 wrote: post #120

BitWiseVibe wrote: post #70

Wouldn't you have to prove damages in a lawsuit like this? What damages does Musk personally suffer if OpenAI has in fact broken their contract?

that AGI, instead of benefitting the whole world, in which Musk is a part of, will end up only benefitting Microsoft, which he isn't a part of?

This is no AGI. An AGI is supposed to be the cognitive equivalent of a human, right? The "AI" being pushed out to people these days can't even count.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#263

Post by DueDilligence » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:14 PM UTC

[dead]

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#264

Post by TechPlasma » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #104

andsoitis wrote: post #26

Many would argue, reasonably so, that OpenAI is now a de facto subsidiary of the largest company in the world by market cap, Microsoft (Apple is second and Saudi Arabian Oil is third).

Actually NVIDIA just took over Saudi Aramco, but they are sharing 3rd position.

I read this comment as "NVIDIA just took over Saudi Aramco" and was briefly confused in what could possibly be their reasoning for that acquisition?! Perhaps they decided to get some weird lower price on fuel for their gpus.... Anyways it was a brief but fun bit of confusion.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#265

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

It seems like the lawsuit revolves around a claim that GPT-4 is "AGI." Seems kind of dubious but, of course, when these questions get to courts who knows what will happen.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#266

Post by magoghm » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

ungreased0675 wrote: post #20

I do wonder if OpenAI is built on a house of cards. They aren’t a nonprofit, aren’t open, and stole a huge quantity of copyrighted material to get started. But, by moving fast and scaling quickly, are they at the Too Big to Fail stage already? The attempted board coup makes me think so.

"stole a huge quantity of copyrighted material" <- nobody stole anything, even if it's eventually determined that there was some form of copyright infringement it wouldn't have been stealing

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#267

Post by AlbertCory » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #202

AlbertCory wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that qualifies as "standing", but IANAL.

He was also a founding donor, so there is that. If I have a non-profit legally chartered save puppies, you give me a million dollars, then I buy myself cars and houses, I would expect you have some standing.

Note that I didn't say he lacks standing. Just that your argument wasn't it.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#268

Post by stale2002 » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

permo-w wrote: post #199

nradov wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reliable evidence that AGI is an existential threat, nor that it is even achievable within our lifetimes. Current OpenAI products are useful and technically impressive but no one has shown that they represent steps towards a true AGI.

you're aware of what a threat is, I presume? a threat is not something that is reliably proven; it is a possibility. there are endless possibilities for how AGI could be an existential threat, and many of them of are extremely plausible, not just to me, but to many experts in the field who often literally have something to lose by expressing those opinions. >no one has shown that they represent steps towards a true A…

> a threat is not something that is reliably proven

So then are you going to agree with every person claiming that literal magic is a threat then?

What if someone were worried about Voldemort? Like from Harry Potter.

You can't just abandon the burden of proof here, by just calling something a "threat".

Instead, you actually have to show real evidence. Otherwise you are no different from someone being worried about a fictional villain from a book. And I mean that literally.

The AI doomers truly are a master at coming up with excuses as for why the normal rules of evidentiary claims shouldn't apply to them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And this group is claiming that the world will literally end.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#269

Post by photochemsyn » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

In the rush to monetize their assets, OpenAI and Microsoft are turning to the government contracting spigot:

https://theintercept.com/2024/01/12/open-ai-military-ban-cha...

Interestingly, this is also how IBM survived the Great Depression, it got a lucrative contract to manage Social Security payments. However, AI and AGI are considerably more dangerous and secretive military uses of the technology should be a giant red flag for anyone who is paying attention to the issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to launch this lawsuit was motivated in part by this move by Microsoft/OpenAI.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#270

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:16 PM UTC

siliconc0w wrote: post #248

There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.

They didn't "turn it into" a for-profit though, they created a separate for-profit arm. This one is unusually successful but that's not an unusual thing for even "regular" charities to do in order to engage in some activities that they wouldn't normally be able to.