> I'd hate to bet against elon winning
- @sama
Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
81–90 of 1001 posts
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#82The cynic in me believes this is motivated by not Musk's love for the "mission", but by xAI, his attempt to build OpenAI's competitor. I'm guessing this is just a way to weaken a competitor.
You're probably right, but either way it will be interesting to see this tested in court. I think it's good to have some extra scrutiny over how OpenAI is operating regardless of the underlying motivations that led to the action!
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
If he thinks GPT-4 is AGI, Elon should ask a team of GPT-4 bots to design, build and launch his rockets and see how it goes. If “economically valuable work” means creating terrible, wordy blog posts then yeah I guess it’s a risk.
I don’t think GPT-4 is AGI, but that seems like a foolish idea. An AGI doesn’t need to be hyperproficient at everything, or even anything. Ask a team of any non-aeronautical engineers to build a rocket and it will go poorly. Do those people not qualify as intelligent beings?
> Ask a team of any non-aeronautical engineers to build a rocket and it will go poorly. Do those people not qualify as intelligent beings?
I suspect you'd have one person on the team that would say "perhaps you'd be better choosing a team that knows what they're doing"
meanwhile GPT-4 would happily accept and emit BS
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
if you're not profitable, there should be no tax advantage, right?
OpenAI was a 501C3. This meant donors could give money to it and receive tax benefits. The advantage is in the unique way it can reduce the funders tax bill.
A donation is a no strings attached thing, so these donors basically funded a startup without getting any shares?
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#85AI is going to continue to have incremental progress, particularly now in hardware gains. No one can even define what AGI is or what it will look like, let alone be something that OpenAI would own? Features progress is too incremental to suddenly pop out with "AGI". Fighting about it seems a distraction.
Progress is definitely not inremental, it's exponential.
The same performance (training an LLM with a given perplexity) can be achieved 5x cheaper next year while the amount of money deep learning infrastructure gets increases exponentially right now.
If this method is able to get to AGI (which I believe but many people are debating), human intelligence will just be mostly ,,skipped'', and won't be a clear point.
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's also no reason to believe that incremental progress in transformer models will eventually lead to "AGI".
Yes, but I think everyone would agree that the chance isn't 0%
Transformer neural networks are not capable of true recursion, which is an excellent reason to think that the chance truly is 0%.
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#87Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important
I completely agree. AGI is an existential threat, but the real meat of this lawsuit is ensuring that you can't let founders have their cake and eat it like this. what's the point of a non-profit if they can simply pivot to making profit the second they have something of value? the answer is that there is none, besides dishonesty. it's quite sad that the American regulatory system is in such disrepair that we could ev…
Nuclear weapons are an existential threat - that's why there are layers of human due diligence. We don't just hook it up to automated systems. If we hook up an unpredictable, hard-to-debug technology to world-ending systems, it's not its fault, it's ours.
The AGI part is Elon being Elon, generating a lot of words to sound like he knows what he is talking about. He spends a lot of time thinking about this stuff when he is not busy posting horny teenager jokes on Twitter?
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#88This is an admirable lawsuit, however, Musk is no longer on the board. That means he has as much say in the direction of the company as a random crackhead living on the BART train. The article states he left the board in 2018.
> he has as much say in the direction of the company as a random crackhead living on the BART train
He donated 8 figures to the nonprofit. So he deserves as much say in the direction as a random crackhead living on the BART train who donated $44M to the nonprofit.
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#89Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important
I completely agree. AGI is an existential threat, but the real meat of this lawsuit is ensuring that you can't let founders have their cake and eat it like this. what's the point of a non-profit if they can simply pivot to making profit the second they have something of value? the answer is that there is none, besides dishonesty. it's quite sad that the American regulatory system is in such disrepair that we could ev…
There is no reliable evidence that AGI is an existential threat, nor that it is even achievable within our lifetimes. Current OpenAI products are useful and technically impressive but no one has shown that they represent steps towards a true AGI.
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#90What happened with the ranking? Were there people who flagged all the stories, even the first (obviously newsworthy) one?
The 30 or so submissions of this story all set off a bunch of software penalties that try to prune the most repetitive and sensational stories off the front page. Otherwise there would be a lot more repetition and sensationalism on the fp, which is the opposite of what HN is for (see explanations via links below if curious). The downside is that we have to manually override the penalties in the case of a genuinely im…
Thanks for the explanation - I was just wondering the exact same thing as the parent.