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Punk is dead and so are we

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Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#161

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

rglover wrote: post #157
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think "being against the mainstream" is the standard of what punk is?

Because that's what it is: a commodified version of "f*ck you mom and dad" rebellion with DIY window dressings. I grew up in punk culture (my house in college was a DIY punk club [1]) and at the core, that's all it is [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuJ60dAHyc4 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YefQjTeaUDI

I don't know what punk was like anywhere in 2008. It wasn't (just) that in London in the 1970s, and there is non-commodified version of it that continues to exist in many places (or so it seems).

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#162

Post by mantas »

atlas_hugged wrote: post #128
DeathArrow wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterculture of today is the culture of yesterday,when no one called you a nazi bigot for doing things that were normal in the day.

There’s nothing counterculture to conservatism my good man. Hell, it’s in the name. The left moves society forward, the right holds society back. I don’t like everything the young kids are doing but I know I will eventually be wrong, so I try to understand them and learn to embrace the change they bring. The young left will always, eventually, move society forward. Whether we like it or not. What you’re witnessing is…

When constant progress becomes the dominant culture, counter-culture is, well, counter to that.

And conservative counter culture is not exactly going back to X era. You can't step into the same river twice. It's a different path of progress instead with some reflect on history.

We could also say gay rights were conservative, because they were bringing back something somewhat similar to ancient Greece. A lot of progress is reinventing the wheel, with some changes.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#163

Post by thomastjeffery »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #151
atlas_hugged wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing counterculture to conservatism my good man. Hell, it’s in the name. The left moves society forward, the right holds society back. I don’t like everything the young kids are doing but I know I will eventually be wrong, so I try to understand them and learn to embrace the change they bring. The young left will always, eventually, move society forward. Whether we like it or not. What you’re witnessing is…

> The left moves society forward, the right holds society back. There's good conservatism and bad conservatism, just like there's good progressivism and bad progressivism. The latter consists mostly of change for change's sake, while bad conservatism consists of resisting change for no reason. But the good kind of conservatism is an important force in a society that has any sort of progressive energy (read: almost al…

I've spent my entire life surrounded by people who genuinely believe they are good conservatives.

I have never, even once, encountered good conservatism.

There is good progressivism, and there is fake progressivism. It isn't too hard to tell them apart.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#165

Post by thomastjeffery »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #141
0ckpuppet wrote: post #74

Punk is dead. Once I witnessed old punk rockers backing government lockdowns, backing the authorities, and shilling for politicians and political parties, I realized rebellion is now a commodity.

[flagged]

Given the overall context, I don't think there is a more reasonable way to put it.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#166

Post by s1artibartfast »

kevinsync wrote: post #85

I'm convinced that Juggalos are one of the only real countercultures in American society today.

Exactly. If mainstream accepts you, you aren't counterculture. Real counter-culture isn't "cool" .

Im sure there are other countercultures besides Juggalos; US Wahabis, religious polygamists, ect.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#168

Post by s1artibartfast »

RangerScience wrote: post #79
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, todays true counterculture is conservative religious communities. There is nother more counter to the cultural moment then being a traditionally moral, upright citizen who doesnt do drugs, doesnt lie, cheat, steal, has their libido under control, is reliable, whose existence is profitable to the rest of the world (not neccessarily economically, just mean someone who contributes more than they take : fi…

> traditionally moral Having traditional morals isn't the same as being moral. Source: Hm... 6, maybe more, different friends who grew up in different versions of these communities, each of whom describes them as "dangerous cults".

Being labeled as dangerous is a strong argument that they are counter cultures.

If you are accepted by the mainstream, you aren't counter culture, just a flavor.

Counterculture isn't necessarily cool or good or safe.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#169

Post by s1artibartfast »

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #154
parineum wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how what you've just said isn't the same as what we would currently call a social democracy with a capitalist economy. Specifically, "decentralized planning" is a synonym of capitalism and the other concepts your using exist already, enabled by the capitalist ethos of allowing the individual to use their capital as they see fit.

Libertarian socialism rejects representative democracy, they favour horizontal institutions with instantly recallable delegates instead of representives.

I think it also seeks to minimize democracy itself, in favor of anarchy wherever possible, if not entirely.
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