Punk is dead. Once I witnessed old punk rockers backing government lockdowns, backing the authorities, and shilling for politicians and political parties, I realized rebellion is now a commodity.
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Punk is dead and so are we
141–150 of 213 posts
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#142There is a sort of nihilism that emerges when you look deeper at counterculture and it's conformity. Neo recognizing with horror the other neos is a great example. (In that case it only worked out for him because of hollywood's love of love - because he loved trinity so much he was really different from the rest.) I've often wondered how the leaders of the hippie, punk, and more modern movements would compare to clas…
Counterculture of today is the culture of yesterday,when no one called you a nazi bigot for doing things that were normal in the day.
You mean, like lyinching and segregating Black people and not having the same rights until the damn US landed into the Moon? FFS, nazi-like laws were expected in the Nazi Germany, Francoist Spain or Mussolini's Italy, not under a self-called democracy right into the Beatles era.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#143I think the author misattributed who the modern era punks would be. At least based on the described framework of what punk counter-culture was about and what it was countering. Given how much of the mainstream is organized around overwrought advertising, influencering, guruing, and being terminally online... it seems like the modern punks would be the counter-culture that prioritizes being offline, being private, and…
>Given how much of the mainstream is organized around overwrought advertising, influencering, guruing, and being terminally online... it seems like the modern punks would be the counter-culture that prioritizes being offline, being private, and being whatever the opposite of "fake it 'til you make it" would be called. Genuine and modest?
The genuine ones - outside all media attention yes.
Because otherwise even that has been packaged and sold by "minimalist" and "slow living" influencers.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the contrary, when you look at who holds power in the US, it is conservative religious people. From actual lawmakers to the media. They get to set the culture.
It would be nice if that was the case, but that's not how political and media dynamics work. Just because these folks like to pander to traditional values or spirituality doesn't mean that they'll be driven to further them meaningfully in their day-to-day work.
It is delusional to say this in the face of, for just one example, the Chief Justice of Alabama justifying a decision out of their religious beliefs.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Partly, I guess in effect at least, but I would reject people are embracing lgbt rights because it is "cool" on the whole. It's more like, would you say women's lib was this type of fad? Or black rights? Etc.
It has absolutely become fashionable in the past few years, as evidenced by things the author (or maybe Hunter Thompson) wrote about, like having their own section in Target and ostensibly having support from Lockheed Martin (and every other company that wants to sell more products each June). The risk of yesterday is greatly diminished; "being LGBT++++" is now mostly a process of buying the right pronoun pins from A…
> Everything I've seen points to a combination of attention-seeking and shoehorning their mediocre white suburban existences into the Oppression Pyramid, because that's the only way to signal that they're not Evil Colonizers. It's sad.
If you attend a pride event, even in mostly white areas, you'll quickly realize that the majority of people there are not white.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#146I'm not familiar with the age of the author but the article very much makes me think they are old enough to have seen the counterculture of their youth become mainstream and die while the next wave of counterculture was "inauthentic and corporate" followed by being too out of touch with the youth to notice the counterculture coming up behind it (and mistaking the mainstream for the counterculture, ie, taylor swift, k…
Not all counterculture becomes the new culture. It is carefully curated by gatekeepers. It just so happens that the gatekeepers are backed by money (that capitalism thing). Making it through the gate is known as "selling out" because of sour grapes and filthy lucre.
Why am I trying to explain this to someone whose handle is "parineum?"
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#147It is funny to note that “Punk is Dead” came out in 1977, but all the action in the article WRT punk is happening in the 90’s and beyond. The author acknowledges this in a way, though: > the only visible instantiation of a subcultural franchise putting on against-the-grain airs similar to those of the punks and goths of the 1990s (who had all been thoroughly domesticated by that point)[…] Anyway, I’m not sure who the…
Is it possible your affinity to the blue hair and pronouns subculture prevents you from seriously considering the author's analysis of it? To a gay man or transvestite (as they often called themselves, nothing derogatory meant by it) of yore, surely that movement represented freedom from repression. Today, when bigotry towards homosexuals is socially taboo, what does it mean to the allies, warriors and fluid genders?…
Bigotry against homosexuals is not taboo where I live.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counter culture is one thing, but the important bit is DIY, maybe more specifically DIT, do it together. This isn't about being offline, private, modest, etc., it's about seeing the rat race coming and stepping aside. They understand that ticketmaster & live nation probably own most of the venues in town, so if you don't want to play by their rules, you'll have to spend your entertainment dollars elsewhere, or if you…
While it is probably not possible to speak of "the entire punk movement" as a single thing (to the extent that there even is a punk movement per se), but the 1970s punk movement in London was not motivated by: > seeing the rat race coming and stepping aside it was a response to several different elements occuring alongside and simultaneously: * the bleakness of 1970s Britain * the perception of significant barriers t…
There was no rat race coming - almost nobody was going to participate in that (a good and a bad thing, all at once).
Yes, they all stepped aside to make their own England, their own galleries or music halls, which gave people like Don Letts a place to thrive, etc.
it was a desperate reaching for something of one's own
It sounds like you don't disagree...
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#149I think the author misattributed who the modern era punks would be. At least based on the described framework of what punk counter-culture was about and what it was countering. Given how much of the mainstream is organized around overwrought advertising, influencering, guruing, and being terminally online... it seems like the modern punks would be the counter-culture that prioritizes being offline, being private, and…
Punk rose to prominence, in part, because of their acceptance of technology. They used technology that was once the expensive and in the domain of conservative corporations that was turned into accessible and cheap ways to disseminate ideas. Xerox machines were prominently used to create flyers for shows and distribute zines. Cassette tapes were copied and passed around to anyone who wanted one. VHS was used to recor…
The punk ethos, shortlived as it was as a mainstream culture, and a little longer lived (still short) from some totally uncommercial die-hards, was not about technology at all.
Xerox was not some fancy new technology, it as 15+ year old staple at the time.
Cassetes were not a thing in the punk scene at the time. They were insignificant in sales in the UK, and no mixtapes, they caught on in the tail end of the 70s, several years after the original punk movement commercialized and died "Punk is dead" came to be.
Same, of course, for VHS.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counterculture of today is the culture of yesterday,when no one called you a nazi bigot for doing things that were normal in the day.
There’s nothing counterculture to conservatism my good man. Hell, it’s in the name. The left moves society forward, the right holds society back. I don’t like everything the young kids are doing but I know I will eventually be wrong, so I try to understand them and learn to embrace the change they bring. The young left will always, eventually, move society forward. Whether we like it or not. What you’re witnessing is…
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