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Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

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Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#381

Post by dghlsakjg »

lainga wrote: post #347
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described the “rule of law” and this is the basis for how modern governments are formed and function A constitution is written and codifies the process for making ratifying and enforcing laws. That then is the common standard for some subset of behaviors as defined by the constitution which defines who it does and does not apply to. Different constitutions outline different processes but the structure of the…

And now we come to the unfortunate fact that there is no equivalent in English for the distinction between Recht and Gesetz , or droit and loi , both being subsumed under the term law . The former is an immanent thing, a "shared search after justice". The latter is temporal, it is written down and itemised in Strafgesetzbuche and Codes Civiles , and is very appealing to HNers because we can read "common standard for…

Isn't this explained in the phrase "the spirit of the law" vs. "the letter of the law", or is there more to the concept.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#382

Post by engineer_22 »

gchamonlive wrote: post #312
engineer_22 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but a weapon can't be in any imaginable circumstance reachable by anyone untrained. I agree with your main point that the FZ is easily reproduced. I think you miss the mark with this one. Firearms are easily made at home with simple tools and off-the-shelf materials. For example, the United States has a rich tradition of home-made firearms. To provide a concrete example, a shotgun can be made with a length of steel…

Well that is not my main point in the comment you responded to

If I understand now, your argument is that flipper zero is not a social danger, while firearms are, am I correct?

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#383

Post by myself248 »

If the environment can be presumed to contain at least one wolf, then building houses out of straw and sticks is considered negligent and lazy pigs deserve to get eaten.

Responsible pigs who build from brick, sacrificing some profit in the name of security, are celebrated for their sound judgment and foresight.

A fairy tale has been telling us this for at least 200 years and probably much longer, history is unclear on how far back it goes.

It's amazing seeing this thread take the side of the negligent lazy pig. "But my thousand-dependency framework is mostly made of straw!", they say. "My boss won't give me time to even use sticks, much less brick!", they say. "It has to be this way!", they say.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#384

Post by [deleted] »

keiferski wrote: post #308
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described the “rule of law” and this is the basis for how modern governments are formed and function A constitution is written and codifies the process for making ratifying and enforcing laws. That then is the common standard for some subset of behaviors as defined by the constitution which defines who it does and does not apply to. Different constitutions outline different processes but the structure of the…

That's an interesting thought, but I would say instead that I'm in favor of culture being the "first line of defense" and not the law. In other words, I can leave my door unlocked because I am a part of a culture where that sort of thing doesn't happen. Not because there is a law written down somewhere. This has functionally been my experience in a number of spaces, including private workspaces (i.e., you don't expec…

[deleted]

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#385

Post by dec0dedab0de »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #298
keiferski wrote: post #98

Philosophy warning: I don't know if there is a term for it, or if a philosopher/etc. has written about this phenomenon, but: a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws." Rather than expecting a human being to behave in certain ways intrinsically (i.e., normative ethics ) we tend to assume they will behave in the worst way possible, and then pas…

You just described the “rule of law” and this is the basis for how modern governments are formed and function A constitution is written and codifies the process for making ratifying and enforcing laws. That then is the common standard for some subset of behaviors as defined by the constitution which defines who it does and does not apply to. Different constitutions outline different processes but the structure of the…

‘Rule of law’ is the concept that no one is above the law, as opposed to having a specific ruler that can do as they please. It doesn’t really have anything to do with the comment you’re replying to, which would be the same idea if it were decreed by an untouchable supreme leader.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#386

Post by bluGill »

quatrefoil wrote: post #191
keiferski wrote: post #98

Philosophy warning: I don't know if there is a term for it, or if a philosopher/etc. has written about this phenomenon, but: a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws." Rather than expecting a human being to behave in certain ways intrinsically (i.e., normative ethics ) we tend to assume they will behave in the worst way possible, and then pas…

Religious norms and laws were the same for much of history. You could get stoned for adultery for a good while... The decoupling of the two is a pretty recent phenomenon. For a while after, religious and secular norms still provided a fairly rigid template for how you're supposed to behave, but we dismantled a lot of that too. For good reasons, just with a lot of unforeseen consequences. I don't think the phenomenon…

There are a lot of cultures around the world that hate adultery, not just Christians. Some of them had a double standard there (men could have sex with other anyone but women could only have sex with their husband), but many historical cultures had concepts of adultery.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#387

Post by nemo44x »

Draiken wrote: post #252
philwelch wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s actually not true anymore. El Salvador has the most prisoners per capita now. They also have a lower murder rate than the US. The lowest murder rate in the entire Western Hemisphere, actually. Previously they had the highest murder rate in the world. Mass incarceration works. It doesn’t work in the US because we didn’t do enough of it.

Works for who? The corporations profiting from slave prison labor? If we at least arrested the corrupt white collar criminals that never get punished, then we could look at this as something more than an uninformed extreme measure. Imagine if wage theft wasn't merely a fine? Imagine if corruption was actually prosecuted? Then we can talk! /s

Your argument is that because in your opinion we don't arrest enough white color criminals that we shouldn't bother with violent criminals? I don't understand how these are related? This isn't a trade or a negotiation.

Locking up violent criminals and their affiliates for extended periods of time works. We give way too many chances to people today.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#388

Post by hoofhearted »

swozey wrote: post #213
hoofhearted wrote: post #21

Sooo they have been stealing Infiniti's from my area recently with relative ease allegedly by using a Bluetooth obd2 reader connected to an android tablet running a pirated copy of some Nissan service tech software. Nobody from any of the Infiniti groups is 100% certain how they are doing it, but the best theory out there is above. Just the other night, a crew of dudes stole 3 Q50’s from my neighborhood with relative…

I will never, ever keep a car I care about outside anywhere near the city. I know everyone doesn't have the funds for that, but I'm sorry, we all know how rampant car thefts have gotten since before those 3 Q50s in this video were even purchased. I live in the busiest neighborhood in downtown Denver with which has rampant property theft, cats cut out etc non-stop. I own 2 vehicles and neither of them are ever parked…

Some of the issue here is that it’s actually a pretty nice area here in Baltimore, but our police force is currently understaffed and overworked.

One big issue here regarding policing is that our city elected officials can’t tell the city police force what to do.

You see, when the civil war broke out, the state took control of the police force so that the mayor couldn’t lead a confederate coup.

Flash forward to today, and those powers still have never been returned to the city. The mayor and city council set the police budget, but the chief of police takes direction from a state run board.

So there is a big disconnect between citizens voicing concerns to city council members, and those members only ability is to “talk to the major”.

When the cats away, the mice will play off with some stolen cars.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#389

Post by pixl97 »

keiferski wrote: post #226
madeofpalk wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of discussing how car theft is fundamentally an unethical behavior What's to discuss? Is there any ambiguity about whether stealing cars is unethical? What are you bringing to that conversation that moves us forward?

I am pointing out that the response to this problem isn’t, “Hey, there is a cultural problem with society finding this acceptable” and is instead “how can we re-engineer things to prevent this?”

Are you asking yourself the correct questions?

For example, what unethical behaviors do you take part in that are not illegal? And if you do, why have not stopped doing them even without a law?

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#390

Post by smoldesu »

myself248 wrote: post #383

If the environment can be presumed to contain at least one wolf, then building houses out of straw and sticks is considered negligent and lazy pigs deserve to get eaten. Responsible pigs who build from brick, sacrificing some profit in the name of security, are celebrated for their sound judgment and foresight. A fairy tale has been telling us this for at least 200 years and probably much longer, history is unclear o…

It's not about lazy people versus diligent people, though. The companies are blaming the wolves, and arguing that they don't need to fix the issues since only the wolves threaten us (right now). That is a bad security model, and with or without Flipper Zero it will fail.
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