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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't make sense. By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. PWA's only need a few extra integration privileges like badge- and window control, rest is just a web as usual. What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs.

> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…

> Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features.

Yes, and Apple now (against their will) allow me to select this browser myself to browser the web with.

Whether I use this to load a webpage normally or as a PWA does not change the risk I was exposed to. PWAs just let a web application ask the browser to run "fullscreen" without browser chrome, to set its badge and colors, to register as a handler for certain URL types, and to open the share panel. All actions already taken regularly by said browser.

Even if we assume Apple's statement that other browsers are insecure is correct, there is no value in blocking PWAs and requiring me to instead use bookmarks: I am still loading said application in said browser that implements and uses all this functionality itself. To the OS, a PWA is nothing more than a type of bookmark for a browser.

So, no - this is not reasonable and their argument makes no sense. If it was true that Safari was actually safer, then Apple should instead spend energy sharing how so that other apps can be equally safe - it would be incredibly irresponsible for the platform owner to keep security as secret sauce - rather than handicapping other apps.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? But browsers already have this security features that isolates websites from each other? How come PWA, which essentially just placing a website shortcut in the home screen and hiding browser ui, affect browser's existing security features?

It doesn’t, of course. Apple’s real concern is that if Chrome is allowed to host standalone PWAs, it can also remove some of the unnecessary pain points that Apple’s Safari maliciously injected to kneecap PWAs in the first place. For example, Chrome could make it easy for users to install a PWA. Chrome could support more web standards. Etc. This would create a true alternative to the App Store, with no Apple tax, and…

Yes because PWAs are so popular on Android

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…

I recommend that everyone interested in this topic read some of the comments from PWA developers at: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=268643 Apple’s decision is going to kill businesses and break apps used by hundreds of thousands of people in Europe, many of whom are healthcare workers delivering patient care.

Patient care apps as PWAs? Yikes.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to imply that the OSS maintainers are owed anything, because I don't believe that. There is still a social contract without anyone being owed anything. You haven't really given an example of why you don't think it exists. Also, to what do I owe the honor of you creating a username based on mine, specifically to reply to me?

The maintainers say in the LICENSE files that their creations can be used by anyone for commercial activities with no strings attached. Once they say that, no one who wants to use the creation has any responsibility to uphold any social contract. But I'm just repeating myself. > Also, to what do I owe the honor of you creating a username based on mine, specifically to reply to me? If you want to stay anon, then so ca…

A social contract is not defined by a LICENSE file.

Developers are under no obligation to create new software for a hostile company's products. Let's see how many vision pro apps get created if Apple keeps shitting on open standards.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#675
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is.

>Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. The more important context is the legal one, not what laypeople think. Apple is presenting PWAs as viable alternatives to the app store in a legal context: https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Apple%20Pty%20Lim…

But now they’ve allowed alternative app stores so why are PWAs still required?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absolute crock of shit. Someone at apple must be feeling really, really pathetic lately. Why can't they just get over themselves and actually deliver a useful product instead of trying to achieve cult status?

I dislike how Apple is evolving as an evil corporate, but they seem to have a real security and privacy concern on this issue.

> but they seem to have a real security and privacy concern on this issue

That's always how they spin their FUD. They already have an app sandbox in place for all fo their apps. Sideloaded, PWA, or not.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. The more important context is the legal one, not what laypeople think. Apple is presenting PWAs as viable alternatives to the app store in a legal context: https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Apple%20Pty%20Lim…

But now they’ve allowed alternative app stores so why are PWAs still required?

Because they have already been heavily invested in and are cross platform. Sure, Apple has already been fucking over PWAs by refusing to implement certain web standards, but they still promoted them and they are heavily used in certain industries.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do what with it? Use it to make campaign videos so that my bank will allow it or make apps for it? Or my stock broker? Or the pharmacy app? Or the delivery app? Oh, or maybe I should apply for a visa so that I can travel to somewhere where that is sold? Yeah, makes sense.

All my banks are accessible through Angelfish web browser. If you need Android apps, Sailfish OS supports them. Or else install AOSP. We live in XXI century, there is something like Internet, you don't have to travel in order to buy a phone, see e.g. eBay.

Indeed 21st century. That’s why I wish you luck in getting out of that sheltered bubble whatever and wherever it is.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t, of course. Apple’s real concern is that if Chrome is allowed to host standalone PWAs, it can also remove some of the unnecessary pain points that Apple’s Safari maliciously injected to kneecap PWAs in the first place. For example, Chrome could make it easy for users to install a PWA. Chrome could support more web standards. Etc. This would create a true alternative to the App Store, with no Apple tax, and…

Yes because PWAs are so popular on Android

They’re not as necessary on Android because Android has alternative App distribution methods.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because PWAs are so popular on Android

They’re not as necessary on Android because Android has alternative App distribution methods.

Right. Because downloading from alternate app stores or from the web is really easier than creating a PWA and is easier for discoverability.

But that is a new retort when I ask that same question most of the time. Often it’s because of mean old Apple that PWAs aren’t more popular on Android.

But since now that there will be alternate means of distribution in the EU, you should be okay with no PWAs in the EU?

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