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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#451

Post by commoner »

shuckles wrote: post #127
akaij wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think believing why the most valuable company in the world with the highest and thickest walls around its garden, and a track record of not playing nice with others, is doing this, requires much explanation except that they want to kill the possibility of anyone bypassing the toll gate to the said garden.

Apple could support PWAs and enforce the same Core Technology Fee they do on them as they do for 3p distributed apps, so this argument makes no sense.

Apple has no way of enforcing any kind of platform fee for PWAs since the developer does not need to interact with Apple at all. This financial conflict of interest is why the availablity of the full PWA feature set is desirable to developers and undesirable to Apple.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#452

Post by neurostimulant »

wokwokwok wrote: post #315
arghwhat wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't make sense. By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. PWA's only need a few extra integration privileges like badge- and window control, rest is just a web as usual. What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs.

> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…

> if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly?

But browsers already have this security features that isolates websites from each other? How come PWA, which essentially just placing a website shortcut in the home screen and hiding browser ui, affect browser's existing security features?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#453

Post by johnnyanmac »

Gamemaster1379 wrote: post #410
oblio wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a mob if it's democratically elected? People have the most random and poorly thought out talking points.

Tyranny of the majority

Is it tyranny to allow an option to load an extra app store?

I can tell you from 14 years of android experience that nothing else is going to really compete with the App Store even if Apple had a setup screen advertising alternative app stores on every device. The alt store will be where

1) a few super rich apps to dodge the 30% (which as of now consists of... Fortnite on Android. And that's it. Apple already banned that. And from previous articles, they are already maliciously complying with this anyway)

2) apps that are on the Grey market (emulators, certain readers)

3) porn, or any other app that is simply not allowed on IOS for moral reasons as opposed to legal. There are less of these than you think, though I can see Japan taking advantage of this to balance it out.

4) some niche homebrew stuff or otherwise apps that have a strong ideology for Open Source as opposed to selling a service

So, nothing Apple really cares about (and Fortnite, which has been out of the picture for 4 years now).

My blue sky hopes is that Valve makes a mobile Steam for premium games one day if this opens up properly, but I don't see that happening this decade, even if IOS opened the floodgates worldwide tomorrow.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#454

Post by ikekkdcjkfke »

treflop wrote: post #443
benguild wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…

From Apple’s PoV, PWAs don’t earn them any money, aren’t forced through review by Apple, and decrease lock-in. There is no incentive for Apple to support PWAs.

So it is now their fiduciary duty to enshitify the web? Nice system

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#455

Post by johnnyanmac »

akmarinov wrote: post #23
addicted wrote: post #5

I don’t think Apple’s pettiness is gonna work in their favor. I am not in the EU but my next iPhone is almost certainly not gonna be an iPhone despite me having used a non iPhone for about 6 months in the last 15 years. Their throwing their customers under the bus just to throw a tantrum in the EU does not bode well for how they would treat their customers in other situations.

Whatever they manage to eek out in the EU, is the future of what iOS will be in the US and worldwide eventually. If they go with fully fledged PWAs that the other browser engines will enable - there’s little reason to use the Appstore, hence Apple losing their 30% commission. From their perspective it’s not so much throwing a tantrum but clawing and screaming their way into giving up as little revenue as possible.

We also know 70% of revenue comes from games. And there's no way proper game is going run on a PWA.

I also invoke Android again... PWAs exist, Google still holds the lions share. Google has freaked out about it too and is being sanctioned as we speak for it, but most customers simply aren't going to look for an alt app store outside of niche uses.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#456

Post by dclowd9901 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #93

Said it before and it seems clearer every day, that we're in an era reminiscent of the 1920s with big mobs fighting it out. One of the old games back in town is protection rackets [0], digital forms of ransacking, vandalism, threats and "tax" collecting are all the rage dontchyknow. Everyone's got their "security" to give you. But it ain't your security, and it ain't compatible with noone else's. Nice app store you g…

Since when has a protection racket given you choice of protection?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#457

Post by dclowd9901 »

addicted wrote: post #5

I don’t think Apple’s pettiness is gonna work in their favor. I am not in the EU but my next iPhone is almost certainly not gonna be an iPhone despite me having used a non iPhone for about 6 months in the last 15 years. Their throwing their customers under the bus just to throw a tantrum in the EU does not bode well for how they would treat their customers in other situations.

What customers? The ones that use PWAs? I would bet a good portion of my arm that fewer than 10% of Apple’s user ship relies on PWAs.

This is Apple saying “if it’s important to you dozen folks out there who use PWAs or care about installing a non-web view browser on your phone, that you can continue doing that, we’re not the company for you.”

They won’t blink because who gives a shit?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#458

Post by johnnyanmac »

montagg wrote: post #256
toyg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're desperately hoping that their fanbois will howl so much, that MEPs will relent.

I don't understand. How do you see disabling a feature that few people use leading to riling people up so the EU reverse itself?

I don't get it either, but that seems to be the plan. Either peer pressure or they are just dragging their feet in inevitable litigation. Trying to get a few more years of max monetization before a niche of users and apps exist outside of IOS (without jailbreaking, if that's still a thing).

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#459

Post by bsimpson »

buzzert wrote: post #378
johanneskanybal wrote: post #25

As a European dev I want apple to fail super hard and implode. They used to be so cool and make slick hardware for their nische but now I'm happy to use worse hardware as long as they disapear from the face of the earth.

You don't have to wait for Apple to fail? You can use free software phones today . The Librem 5 is a good example.

Isn't that the one that's super expensive, ships like an unreliable Kickstarter, and lives in a Linux ecosystem that's just a sad replica of old smartphones?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#460

Post by johnnyanmac »

buzzert wrote: post #377
Zagitta wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope EU comes down HARD on them for trying to pull this shit

What exactly does that look like, in your mind? The EU coerces Apple engineers to work for free?

To work for their salary to comply with the country they serve in and still continue to be a trillion dollar company. Yes. I don't know why people are trying to spin this as if Apple operates on thin margins.

In the very worst case, they either get fined out the ass until it's unprofitable to play these games, and/or sanctioned as a whole and lose the whole EU market, a market of 750m users. What other business gets to ignore laws and still operate in that land?

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