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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#581

Post by MrDresden »

thatha7777 wrote: post #517

Frankly, Apple's position enrages me. It's okay that Apple doesn't like a European law. As a US-based company, it makes sense that it feels like a foreigner is meddling in their affairs... It's okay that they continue to have the hubris that Apple, and Apple alone, knows what's best for everyone. However... the democratically-elected institutions of the EU represent a total of 447 million people. Most technologists I…

They didn't need better lawyers. There wasn't an argument for them to use, better than the one you mention.

Apple (and by extension it's product line), is monopolistic. And they know it.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#582

Post by crossroadsguy »

niutech wrote: post #498
crossroadsguy wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have looked. If you look for a clean experience and not an OS that tracks your every breath and every shake, none. Absolutely none. If you care about a sanely sized phone and not a phablet, then double absolutely none — as in there’s no option in Apple’s stable either. Been using my 14 for some 9 months after 12 mini and every time I look at this monstrosity I regret moving to iPhones because I kinda knew they’d st…

You haven't looked at Xperia XA2/X/XZ2/XZ3/10 on Sailfish OS, have you?

And do what with it? Use it to make campaign videos so that my bank will allow it or make apps for it? Or my stock broker? Or the pharmacy app? Or the delivery app? Oh, or maybe I should apply for a visa so that I can travel to somewhere where that is sold? Yeah, makes sense.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#583

Post by MrDresden »

system2 wrote: post #438
ttarr wrote: post #53

These kind of news make me feel happy that I'm Apple, Microsoft and Google* free. Phone is ungoogled Android.

Ironic that Android was mostly developed by Google.

But isn't it lovely though, the ability to not be beholden to the original developer with the device you own?

It should bring hope to the hearts of all device owners that are currently firmly under the bootheel of device manufacturers.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#584

Post by MrDresden »

tonoto wrote: post #51
brikym wrote: post #30

I'm actually thinking of switching back to Android because of this bullshit. There are a lot of niche web apps I use, particularly for local things, that just won't be developed into an iOS app because it's not viable.

Android user since ~2010 (before that, Symbian).. I tried one of Apple's "Pro" phones with IOS 2021, last year I went back to Android and back to freedom even if it is Google's walled garden. Still, being able to control many aspects of the phone (choice of browser, do I need to mention different volume controls, can compile own stuff, automation) is unbeatable. To me using iPhone left me with the same crippled feeli…

> ..even if it is Google's walled garden.

But it isn't.

As an owner of the device, you can install anything you want on it, from any source you'd like.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#585

Post by mission_failed »

deminature wrote: post #224
amelius wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the way I feel too. I learned to program on an Apple ][ that I loved, before Jobs started his nefarious business practices. Woz's Apple was cool. Jobs' Apple makes me feel like they want to enslave developers, or at least milk them to the last drop.

It's only turned really cynical under Cook, chargers no longer included, cables sold separately from chargers to nickel and dime customers, refusal to adopt standards like USB-C unless threatened in court, refusing to pay patent license fee for blood O2 monitoring on the Apple Watch and trying to scalp all the talent from the company instead, anti-competitive behavior in the EU. Jobs version of Apple was pretty benig…

Nonsense. Adobe had a flash to ios system ready to go to allow all flash apps to run, and Jobs deliberately blocked it from working, leading to the eventual death of flash.

Jobs was one of the main bastards behind screwing over engineer's pay.

Under Jobs we had soldered ram and ridiculous upgrade prices, changing magsafe port sizes just because, dropping OS support for official Apple modems when the majority of the world still had dialup, flaking cases and dodgy screens and phones that have to be held the right way, water sensors that react to humidity and void warranty, locking down ios upgrades to prevent downgrading, ebook price fixing...

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#586

Post by szasamasa »

turquoisevar wrote: post #418
benguild wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…

> The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity This is a trite argument that hasn’t been true ever since Jen Simmons joined Apple in 2020 and changed the course of Safari significantly to the point that PWAs not only are viable, they have been given feature parity with native apps on many fronts. Simultaneously, the argument completely bypasses the fac…

web apps are websites with standalone

the name "install" is bad and the wording is NOT a web standard, NOTHING is installed

the question is web capabilities

one core capability is caching and offline via service workers

no need for "install" for this

"installing" a web app does not even need anything anymore, not even offline or service workers... it is ONLY switch to standalone and get a launch button or be integrated into app launchers on OS

behind "install" is a bad and immature web app manifest api, it is a draft... the wording install must go

it is one of MANY possible web capabilities for a web domain to be able run standalone and get a button

apple cannot ban this since a shortcut to chrome cannot be deemed unsafe, where then CHROME decides to run standalone or not

the real problem is NOT that safari kills standalone

they try to kill a lot of web capability, like service workers, and NOT JUST FOR SAFARI

I mean this will not stand, you CAN stay apple-level-safe (whether it is more or less than other platforms) by CHOOSING safari

it is an obvious CHOICE to be granted to trust google, mozilla or microsoft and their web security model to stay safe with THEM on the web

no argument why this should not be allowed if other native apps are allowed

and come on, even mac os is safe with service workers in chromium

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#587

Post by the_gipsy »

visarga wrote: post #541
the_gipsy wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im going to ditch my iPhone in favor of a Pixel. This attitude has pushed me over the edge, and the device isn't really any better than Android. Some aspects yes, but other are much worse. Dark patterns like the appstore/web/browsers restrictions and iCloud upselling are a big no-no. Never again.

my last Pixel had shit battery compared to iPhone, buyer beware

My current iPhone has shit battery compared to my slightly less shitty previous pixel's battery.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#588

Post by szasamasa »

web apps are websites with standalone

the name "install" is bad and the wording is NOT a web standard, NOTHING is installed

the question is web capabilities

one core capability is caching and offline via service workers

no need for "install" for this

"installing" a web app does not even need anything anymore, not even offline or service workers... it is ONLY switch to standalone and get a launch button or be integrated into app launchers on OS

behind "install" is a bad and immature web app manifest api, it is a draft... the wording install must go

it is one of MANY possible web capabilities for a web domain to be able run standalone and get a button

apple cannot ban this since a shortcut to chrome cannot be deemed unsafe, where then CHROME decides to run standalone or not

the real problem is NOT that safari kills standalone

they try to kill a lot of web capability, like service workers, and NOT JUST FOR SAFARI

I mean this will not stand, you CAN stay apple-level-safe (whether it is more or less than other platforms) by CHOOSING safari

it is an obvious CHOICE to be granted to trust google, mozilla or microsoft and their web security model to stay safe with THEM on the web

no argument why this should not be allowed if other native apps are allowed

and come on, even mac os is safe with service workers in chromium

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#589

Post by sensanaty »

xvector wrote: post #390
flessner wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You can predict the future economic state of the EU as well as the next person 2) Most of the "bureaucracy" that hits small to medium sized companies is the GDPR, which any business with the slightest of integrity should have no problem to follow

You can easily use the dearth of meaningful consumer technology companies in the EU and their absurd overindexing on regulation as a predictor of what the EU's economy will look like. While the rest of the world dives into technology and AI, the EU will become a backwater, because the EU does not know how to craft regulation that balances innovation and "consumer good." It literally only focuses on the latter at all…

And the US, with their monopolistic gigacorporations that outright buy politicians in exchange for fucking over every single worker and even their customers en-masse is your idea of progress and innovation? All of that abuse is worth it because we'll get a slightly less shitty chatbot powered by stolen content?

Have you somehow missed all the genuine horror stories coming out of Amazon warehouses, right there on American soil? Or the thousands upon thousands of people getting laid off with impunity on a dime at the beginning of this year?

In a decade from now these megacorps will be sucking everyone in the US dry to make the scumbags C-levels a couple of cents a year richer at everyone else's demise, and yet you're glorifying this as some sort of "progress". Well no thanks, I'm happy with the EU and a lot of what they're doing to keep these psychopathic, comic-book tier villainous megacorporations from wrecking havoc upon everyone in the name of making stakeholders marginally wealthier.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#590

Post by anon373839 »

benguild wrote: post #101
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for P…

I recommend that everyone interested in this topic read some of the comments from PWA developers at: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=268643

Apple’s decision is going to kill businesses and break apps used by hundreds of thousands of people in Europe, many of whom are healthcare workers delivering patient care.

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