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Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

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Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#231

Post by riversflow »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #147
pdonis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> software users are the customers of the software developers Yes, but the users are also customers of the owner of the software platform that the developers are developing for. And the owner of the platform gets to set the platform's rules. Microsoft's standard practice for many years was to watch for which third party Windows applications were becoming popular, and build those features into one of their own product…

Except Apple did exactly what you just said Microsoft did to third party devs, and then also banned their apps off the appstore to boot because they do what their OS now does out of the box, like the famous keyboard for the Apple Watch.[1] At least Microsoft can't ever ban you from selling Windows apps since you're not forced to use their store to sell to Windows users. Apple's grip of the iOS AppStore can be a poiso…

> At least Microsoft can't ever ban you from selling Windows apps since you're not forced to use their store to sell to Windows users

Ha. Oh no, virtually complete piracy protection, whatever will developers do.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#232

Post by withinboredom »

turtlebits wrote: post #220
Ajedi32 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the fundamental issue at play here. I don't care what fees or rules Apple puts in place for developer access to its app store. I care that I'm digitally restricted from running anything other than software approved by Apple on my device. If that problem was solved and Apple had to compete with other app stores on a level playing field, that would naturally resolve any issues with their rules or fee stru…

It's just a different business model. See: game consoles.

You can play games on an iPhone, but I hardly consider a gaming console.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#234

Post by gretch »

lozenge wrote: post #150
the_solenoid wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your takes on this. To me, theres two issues: 1) this push is all driven by big businesses looking to just get free money for nothing, which is why I worry that the EU is so taken up with it. 2) taxes, is you want to line apples 30% up with those, are just part of business. No, you cant write off the 30%, but if you want to keep adding 250million new phones to your potential customer base every year.... wtf, p…

The difference is taxes are set and disbursed democratically. Apple taxes are whatever they want them to be and are disbursed according to their board. Heck they could introduce a tax on Amazon deliveries when Amazon is installed through the Apple App Store and nobody would be able to do anything about it. Except the EU that is.

> nobody would be able to do anything about it

Just don’t use an iPhone. And Amazon - just don’t put an app on the iOS store.

I mean it really is that simple. If customers actually cared about any of this stuff they would just switch. If there was enough demand another competitor would emerge (windows phone, black berry, foss)

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#235

Post by withinboredom »

turtlebits wrote: post #223
callalex wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why I become the exclusive property of a specific corporation through the simple act of using a phone (which is something I am required to do in the modern day).

You buy a device knowing it's ecosystem is controlled by the manufacturer. When I buy a PS5, I understand that Sony 100% controls what games are offered on it.

My phone. Is uh, my phone. I’m not my phone’s property. What crack are you smoking?

For a PS5, it’s quite a bit different. We all can agree that piracy got out of control back in the 90’s/00’s. This is the price we pay to have games. Our phones never had this problem.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#236

Post by withinboredom »

threeseed wrote: post #146
callalex wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why I become the exclusive property of a specific corporation through the simple act of using a phone (which is something I am required to do in the modern day).

Because you aren't their property. You just invented that straw man. And the simple act of using a phone is you making a conscious decision to agree to accept the terms and conditions that come with buying any product. You are in no way forced to and by supporting alternatives you help to change the market for everyone.

Where can I read the terms and conditions for my shoes? My pants? What about my vase I bought? Objects don’t come with terms and conditions.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#237

Post by Ajedi32 »

turtlebits wrote: post #220
Ajedi32 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the fundamental issue at play here. I don't care what fees or rules Apple puts in place for developer access to its app store. I care that I'm digitally restricted from running anything other than software approved by Apple on my device. If that problem was solved and Apple had to compete with other app stores on a level playing field, that would naturally resolve any issues with their rules or fee stru…

It's just a different business model. See: game consoles.

Hot take: I don't think this is okay for game consoles either. If I want to install a GameCube emulator on my PS5 I should be able to and there's nothing Sony should be able to do to stop me. If that means they eventually end up having to charge more for their hardware to make up for reduced software sales, so be it. If they really insist on trying to force their customers to only install stuff through their app store, they can make them sign an explicit contract to that effect. Doing the same thing implicitly via extralegal means isn't an improvement.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#238

Post by LtWorf »

nozzlegear wrote: post #225
LtWorf wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same for people who want homosexuality to be forbidden. It's not enough for themselves to not be homosexual, they also have to force their faith onto others.

This is a ridiculous analogy. Surely you can acknowledge that there may be some kind of security concern – warranted or not – for opening up sideloading on iOS, without casting aspersions on the GP being some kind of closeted bigot.

"It might be dangerous to be gay. You can catch an STD. Hence it should be forbidden."

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#239

Post by withinboredom »

I would popcorn the hell out of a courtroom if someone pulled the ole windows license trick:

1. Buy an iPhone.

2. Don’t agree to the conditions.

3. Sue Apple for not letting you install an alternative OS or at least the get a refund for the amount the OS is worth. Since it’s just a hunk of metal and no value, that should be at least 100% of the cost, plus attorney fees.

4. Force Apple into allowing alternative ROMs.

5. Party.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#240

Post by LtWorf »

snapcaster wrote: post #67
roamerz wrote: post #42

Just wow. Good for Apple! I DO want IOS to remain a walled garden as such. Look how many clicks those pesky do good gov regulators have a cost the world with those annoying "Yes I accept your damn cookies and privacy policy" on every website I visit. Writing apps for IOS is a completely voluntary job where you know the terms before you start. Don't like it? Don't write it -or- just pass on the cost to the consumers.…

I agree, all these moves to open iOS are from some of the biggest pushers of enshittification. The walled garden is great for me, and all sideloading will do is open up new attack vectors for me (and more importantly, the tech ignorant people i care about). I understand the corporate actors pushing for this out of self interest, but all of the bystanders cheering this on annoy me. You already have android, linux phon…

I like how you appropriate a word coined by someone with a completely opposed point of view to your own.

Just kidding. I don't like it.

Live and let live man. Nobody is forcing you to install anything you don't want. Don't impose your preferences on others. It does no damage to you.

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