Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 346 posts

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#221

Post by happyopossum »

TillE wrote: post #158
musictubes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it far fetched that Apple would either hire terrible lawyers that lead them astray or competent lawyers that they then ignore. I agree that they are probably hoping to go to court. Maybe I’m just too American to understand but the idea of “the spirit” of the law seems ridiculous. If you want the law to force Apple to allow slide loading then pass a law that says that. If you want a law that forces Apple to all…

Notably, the DMA includes words like "fair" and "reasonable" for which there is no strict robot-like interpretation. Apple's plans will be evaluated as such by regulators, and there are several provisions which are just plainly anti-competitive, especially the 50 cent per user per year fee just to run an app store. It's really hard to see that holding up.

> 50 cent per user per year fee just to run an app store. It's really hard to see that holding up.

Hard to see a set of circumstances where the regulators succeed in forcing a company to develop and maintain a complex set of APIs for free in perpetuity...

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#222

Post by happyopossum »

lucianbr wrote: post #164
musictubes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it far fetched that Apple would either hire terrible lawyers that lead them astray or competent lawyers that they then ignore. I agree that they are probably hoping to go to court. Maybe I’m just too American to understand but the idea of “the spirit” of the law seems ridiculous. If you want the law to force Apple to allow slide loading then pass a law that says that. If you want a law that forces Apple to all…

Writing a law without loopholes has the same chances of happening as writing a program without bugs. And continuing with the analogy, a "well-written" law just means the loopholes require more resources to find, thus being available in general only to very rich entities. However, regardless of fairness or sloppyness, if a large part of society feels the law should be interpreted in a certain way, the fact that it doe…

>Did the constitution of the USA not literally say "all men are created equal" while you still had slavery?

No, that was the declaration of Independence, some of the authors of which adamantly opposed slavery.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#223

Post by turtlebits »

callalex wrote: post #88
graeme wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a Netflix customer you just log into the app. There’s no issue. The debate is around people who are Apple customers but not Netflix customers, and who download the Netflix app through the App Store.

I don’t understand why I become the exclusive property of a specific corporation through the simple act of using a phone (which is something I am required to do in the modern day).

You buy a device knowing it's ecosystem is controlled by the manufacturer.

When I buy a PS5, I understand that Sony 100% controls what games are offered on it.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#224

Post by [deleted] »

lucianbr wrote: post #164
musictubes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it far fetched that Apple would either hire terrible lawyers that lead them astray or competent lawyers that they then ignore. I agree that they are probably hoping to go to court. Maybe I’m just too American to understand but the idea of “the spirit” of the law seems ridiculous. If you want the law to force Apple to allow slide loading then pass a law that says that. If you want a law that forces Apple to all…

Writing a law without loopholes has the same chances of happening as writing a program without bugs. And continuing with the analogy, a "well-written" law just means the loopholes require more resources to find, thus being available in general only to very rich entities. However, regardless of fairness or sloppyness, if a large part of society feels the law should be interpreted in a certain way, the fact that it doe…

[deleted]

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#225

Post by nozzlegear »

LtWorf wrote: post #207
boolemancer wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does opening up the walled garden impact you if you never side load anything?

It's the same for people who want homosexuality to be forbidden. It's not enough for themselves to not be homosexual, they also have to force their faith onto others.

This is a ridiculous analogy. Surely you can acknowledge that there may be some kind of security concern – warranted or not – for opening up sideloading on iOS, without casting aspersions on the GP being some kind of closeted bigot.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#226

Post by noqc »

riversflow wrote: post #125
noqc wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what you would happen if you really probed a "consumer" about what they mean by trusted.

I can guarantee you they aren't going to mention code audits.

Please do guarantee this, and then actually go perform this experiment.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#227

Post by realusername »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #212
anfilt wrote: post #170

A huge problem is the DMA falls short in addressing a significant violation of property rights concerning the hardware. At the core of property ownership lies the right of exclusion – the ability to exclude or include something on one's personal property. This right is quite important and can even be used to derive most other property rights; please see the linked paper at the bottom. However, Apple's policies with i…

I don't think it is super complicated . You can enshrine a company's right to define its market or the price for its products, hold those rights sacrosact and still punish apple. The issue at the core is not a company's right to X. Instead, it is: Has this company thru dominance of their market have achieved a monopolistic power ? If so, that's the avenue you take to undo their abuse. If the abuse cannot be rectified…

> If the abuse cannot be rectified by market actors or new entrants, they you slap the anticompetitive monopoly with restrictions of what they can or cannot do.

That's pretty clear in the Google / Apple case, the only change of tariffs ever made was made as a reaction to an antitrust lawsuit and copied over.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#228

Post by riversflow »

awesomeMilou wrote: post #171
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

> These are apple's customers they have given you access to. Insane take imo. I'm baffled how people can write this out with a straight face. Just one counter example to the relationship you described: In Europe, if my app does not deliver as advertised, it is the customer that can sue me. Directly. They don't sue Apple because my app is in their app store, they obviously sue me, because I am the service provider. >…

>I'm baffled how people can write this out with a straight face.

I would 100% buy an iPhone with no appstore, it would still be better as a smartphone than my Samsung with F-Droid and Google Play Store.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#229

Post by Terretta »

math_dandy wrote: post #134
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

> That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. Windows users aren’t viewed as Microsoft’s customers from the point of view of third party software. Same with MacOS. Apple has pushed this paradigm in iOS because it’s ludicrously profitable. Control…

Better comparison is Steam, on an ostensibly open Windows, and costing the same for a developer to access as Apple (in fact arguably costs more).

This would suggest the "Apple tax" on devs is less than the Steam tax on devs, despite Gog or whatever existing.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#230

Post by LamaOfRuin »

turtlebits wrote: post #220
Ajedi32 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the fundamental issue at play here. I don't care what fees or rules Apple puts in place for developer access to its app store. I care that I'm digitally restricted from running anything other than software approved by Apple on my device. If that problem was solved and Apple had to compete with other app stores on a level playing field, that would naturally resolve any issues with their rules or fee stru…

It's just a different business model. See: game consoles.

This is generally viewed as okay for game consoles because they are sold at cost or at loss for a large portion of their lifetime. This is very much not true of any Apple hardware.
Post reply on HN