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Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

wired.com

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Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#71

Post by arthurofbabylon »

This is a rather misleading headline. The vast majority of developers are not in “open revolt” – just a handful of developers are making a lot of noise about it, while continuing to ship software (ie, not in revolt at all).

Further, those developers making great noise are often close to “platform” designation themselves, making their appeal less righteous than a superficial reading might have you believe. It’s a struggle over power – not a struggle over quality nor safety nor human liberty.

Most developers are pleased with the current paradigm. I am.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#72

Post by Drakim »

roamerz wrote: post #42

Just wow. Good for Apple! I DO want IOS to remain a walled garden as such. Look how many clicks those pesky do good gov regulators have a cost the world with those annoying "Yes I accept your damn cookies and privacy policy" on every website I visit. Writing apps for IOS is a completely voluntary job where you know the terms before you start. Don't like it? Don't write it -or- just pass on the cost to the consumers.…

> Look how many clicks those pesky do good gov regulators have a cost the world with those annoying "Yes I accept your damn cookies and privacy policy" on every website I visit.

That is a form of malicious compliance that the websites do in order to make you angry at the regulators rather than at them.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#73

Post by maratc »

Justsignedup wrote: post #50
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

The cut is too universal and not neuanced. If it was a 30% cut on profits, that would make sense, and everyone would grin but deal with it. But if you sell something for a 10% markup, having to give that + 20% to apple is bad. And now people ask "why do I have to pay more for your service on apple vs android". And now you're in a fun PR battle. In cases of say fortnight, there are real server costs involved. Not to m…

> In cases of say fortnight, there are real server costs involved. Not to mention dev costs.

In Fortnite, anyone can develop their own maps ("islands") and sell them, while Epic will pay them 40% of the revenue. Now could you please explain how the platform charging 60% platform fee are the good guys in their fight against the greedy platform charging 30% platform fee?

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#74

Post by joshstrange »

Justsignedup wrote: post #50
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

The cut is too universal and not neuanced. If it was a 30% cut on profits, that would make sense, and everyone would grin but deal with it. But if you sell something for a 10% markup, having to give that + 20% to apple is bad. And now people ask "why do I have to pay more for your service on apple vs android". And now you're in a fun PR battle. In cases of say fortnight, there are real server costs involved. Not to m…

I agree with some of what you are saying but:

> In cases of say fortnight, there are real server costs involved.

They are selling digital coins, there is zero cost to "minting" these. It's not up to Apple to make your margins work. F2P works because some people pay and others don't, the ones who pay cover server costs for those who don't. I can promise you Fortnight was bringing in a ton of _profit_ even with Apple's 30% cut. Also "think of the people running digital casinos for kids" (re: lootboxes and the like) isn't a winning argument. In fact I think hosting all that crap is a blacker stain on Apple than taking 30%.

> In cases of say music, there's licensing you pay.

Totally fair, see also: ebooks/audiobooks/tv/movies.

> If you order food, you are already working in the margins.

Apple doesn't take a 30% cut here.

> How can I compete vs netflix if any streaming service I make who doesn't have netflix's negotiation power has to pay 30% of every payment. I can't get close to netflix's price.

Valid when it comes to Google who seem to have struck a number of deals with places like Spotify (see EPIC vs Google suit, and why Google lost) and while there were some backroom deals with Apple I believe it was only for the 15% which Apple eventually rolled out for all subscriptions in the second year.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#75

Post by snapcaster »

malermeister wrote: post #14
riversflow wrote: post #11

[flagged]

Nobody's complaining about not having the apple distribution. They're complaining about the scareware popups, designed to hurt businesses that don't pay Apple protection money.

Come on! It's not scareware! You have to admit these alternative app stores are going to be massively adopted by scammers and grifters (not saying all of the companies that will use these app stores are scammers, but all the scammers and grifters will use them).

Actual real human beings are having their lives turned upside down by things like this every fucking day. Can you try to have a little bit of compassion for people totally ignorant about computers and how much we ask them to do now? The world (and apple) doesn't revolve around developers!

What actual problem for _customers_ is being solved by alternative app stores? I don't know a single non-techie apple person who even knows what this means or has a single desire to sideload an app

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#76

Post by riversflow »

noqc wrote: post #66
riversflow wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The word trusted doesn't change meanings when you move to a sales context unless you're a salesman.

It only has a very specific meaning in software. To consumers Apple's App store is trusted.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#77

Post by standardUser »

menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

> These are apple's customers they have given you access to.

More like Apple's hostages if Apple gets to dictate who does and does not have access to them.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#78

Post by graeme »

e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #49
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

> That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. This is not true at all. Netflix customers are Netflix customers, not Apple; the same goes for Amazon Kindle, Spotify, etc. Netflix literally cannot include a link to netflix.com in their app, otherwi…

If you’re a Netflix customer you just log into the app. There’s no issue.

The debate is around people who are Apple customers but not Netflix customers, and who download the Netflix app through the App Store.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#79

Post by snapcaster »

JimDabell wrote: post #64
snapcaster wrote: post #32

I think something missed when these issues are discussed on sites like this is just how ignorant of computing the average user is. What would be obvious for us "oh it's not from official app store, so I know to apply extra scrutiny" isn't even describable in most people's mental model of computers/smartphones. I don't want my loved ones getting scammed or hacked by people utilizing these new "freedoms". Why can't all…

In fact, side loading leading to scams is that much of a real-world security problem that Android is also trialling restrictions on side loading. Android users constantly get scammed out of tens of thousands of dollars via side loading, while iOS users don’t. Apple are being honest when they say it’s a serious security risk. From Google: > Based on our analysis of major fraud malware families that exploit these sensi…

Of course it is, it's honestly insane how echo-chamber sites like this are where people only have the view of whats good for developers and/or nerds like us who want to sideload weird shit.

As much as developers complain about the apple app store it's really completely fine for users and customers. Wanting a better revenue share with a supplier/partner/distributer is just normal business shit. The whole user freedom thing seems like distraction to me

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#80

Post by smoldesu »

sjwhevvvvvsj wrote: post #31

This is a great way to encourage developers to build the app that will show an essential use case for the Vision Pro. It’s not like Vision Pro is a solution in need of a problem, desperately waiting for a killer app, or that apps built the iPhone ecosystem into the juggernaut it is now. Apple doesn’t need developers, right? Right?

Relax, we have Fruit Ninja VR. The rest is just a matter of waiting for more software to materialize.
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